Author Topic: GrantC's s2000 build for AutoX & TimeAttack 🏎|| "That's...very orange." ||  (Read 199739 times)

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Offline GrantC

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Re: GrantC's s2k build || Front swaybar installed! ||
« Reply #175 on: August 14, 2010, 08:57:41 PM »


"Holy Crap"

Offline GrantC

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Re: GrantC's s2k build || Front swaybar installed! ||
« Reply #176 on: August 14, 2010, 09:17:57 PM »
^--- The above was all I could say, all day after driving the s2k in anger.  (and I know jer, snacker, jutes & pistachoo were starting to wonder about my mental state)

1) "It turns".
It turns so well, in fact, that the wife (my codriver) killed every cone in her first slalom with it, by turning into them and running them over.  Even coming from a coilovered/swaybared/prepped Subaru this is on another level.   It grips (thanks to the double-wishbone suspension, as opposed to the mac strut in a Subaru) enough to make you wonder, and when it does slide (which the wife did a lot) it's very, very catchable & controllable.  There's still more adjustment available on the FSB to stiffen the front further & tame the rear end more, but I don't know if I'll go for it.

A lot of this is due to the tire to weight ratio. If you want to bench race for auto-x... You don't just look at power/weight ratio, or power.  I think tire/weight ratio is a good indicator.  This car has more tire (255 x 4) and less weight (~190kg less based on my trips to the weigh scales).

2) "If you get on the gas, it turns more"
In a Subaru, you get to the apex, you roll onto the gas, and you deal with the understeer pushing you to the outside of the corner & widening your line.  In this RWD, I get on the gas, and it starts to rotate.  It turns more!  You can turn a RWD car with not only the steering wheel, but also that good ol' right foot of yours.

3) The powerband.
Yes, it doesn't have the torque that Soobie did (it's ~ 1/2 as much, despite making a similar ~200whp).  But it revs to 9k RPM (which, BTW, the wife launched at).  It accelerates in a way perfect for auto-x/track.  It feels fast, but it's controllable & 100% predictable.  On an N/A car, xRPM & ythrottle = zHP...  It's repeatable, it's consistant, and it doesn't matter what gear you're in, or what the temperature is, or what your throttle position had been for the couple moments previous. (hint, it does matter for all these things, and more, in a Turbo car)

4) It will punish you if you're ham fisted (or footed)
I did not spin it, I went through some parts of the course crossed up or sideways but I was not the first to spin it.  That honor goes to Any, and even then she had caught the initial slide, but failed to unwind the steering.  So the pendulum effect as it came back again spun us.

This car is only going to make me quicker, it's like a kart, it's like the formula cars with Allen Berg.  It will do exactly what you ask for, so be careful what inputs you give it.

Offline GrantC

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Re: GrantC's s2k build || Front swaybar installed! ||
« Reply #177 on: August 14, 2010, 09:29:40 PM »
So, for my first event driving an s2k, my first event in this car, and with very *very* little experience driving a RWD* I'm happy enough with making it into the top ten in PAX:
http://www.mrheavyfoot.com/files/results/2010/Event7_pax.txt

And winning my class (against someone who's only prep was differently sized tires, AFAIK, but who does have a lot more seat time than me, and in predominantly RWD cars)
http://www.mrheavyfoot.com/files/results/2010/Event7_fin.txt

And there's another autox tomorrow!
http://www.westernsubaruclub.com/smf/index.php?topic=16881.0

*- I drove an is300 for one event, and I once drove a Fiero at a school.

Offline Wally

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GrantC's s2k build || Front swaybar installed! ||
« Reply #178 on: August 14, 2010, 09:38:10 PM »
This.

I don't see why people would make fun of you for crashing your car.  That's just stupid/rude IMHO.

I don't think you're giving Grant enough credit, he's much leas of a ussypay than you think.

Offline Murray Peterson

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Re: GrantC's s2k build || Front swaybar installed! ||
« Reply #179 on: August 15, 2010, 09:37:55 PM »
^--- The above was all I could say, all day after driving the s2k in anger.  (and I know jer, snacker, jutes & pistachoo were starting to wonder about my mental state)

1) "It turns".
2) "If you get on the gas, it turns more"
3) The powerband.
4) It will punish you if you're ham fisted (or footed)

This car is only going to make me quicker, it's like a kart, it's like the formula cars with Allen Berg.  It will do exactly what you ask for, so be careful what inputs you give it.

I guess you enjoyed your car on its first race day? :)  And congrats on your results for your first time in the car!

BTW -- if you think it's good in STR form, you really have to try r-comps some time.  Hmm, maybe not -- that way lies addiction and madness...

Offline GrantC

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Re: GrantC's s2k build || "Holy Crap"! ||
« Reply #180 on: August 15, 2010, 09:40:40 PM »
I guess you enjoyed your car on its first race day? :)  And congrats on your results for your first time in the car!

BTW -- if you think it's good in STR form, you really have to try r-comps some time.  Hmm, maybe not -- that way lies addiction and madness...

Yea, and today was an ~20 run RX-7 club auto-x.  *Lots* of seat time to get the know the new car.

I agree that at the moment I'm just a set of R's for the stock wheels away from a stock class car... but it doesn't interest me.  Philosophically I think the ST classes are the best daily/street/race car (and you still get a well prepped car for trackdays).  (And the PAX is a tiny bit better in STR than BS).

Offline Murray Peterson

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Re: GrantC's s2k build || "Holy Crap"! ||
« Reply #181 on: August 16, 2010, 07:52:10 AM »
I agree that at the moment I'm just a set of R's for the stock wheels away from a stock class car... but it doesn't interest me.  Philosophically I think the ST classes are the best daily/street/race car (and you still get a well prepped car for trackdays).  (And the PAX is a tiny bit better in STR than BS).

Philisophically, I agree with you.  The problem (addiction) is that r-comps give the S2000 yet another level of "holy crap-ness".  Besides the extra grip, the ultra-stiff sidewalls give the steering an instantaneous response that is just plain spooky.  Every time I swap back to street tires, the car's steering response feels soft and sloppy.

Offline GrantC

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Re: GrantC's s2k build || "Holy Crap"! ||
« Reply #182 on: August 16, 2010, 08:03:44 AM »
Philisophically, I agree with you.  The problem (addiction) is that r-comps give the S2000 yet another level of "holy crap-ness".  Besides the extra grip, the ultra-stiff sidewalls give the steering an instantaneous response that is just plain spooky.  Every time I swap back to street tires, the car's steering response feels soft and sloppy.

That's why I did 17x9" wheels rather than 16x9" wheels (in addition to lack of 255/45R16 tires).  Shorter sidewalls = a bit better response. But nothing equals R's, I know.

Offline Vicar

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Re: GrantC's s2k build || "Holy Crap"! ||
« Reply #183 on: August 16, 2010, 09:44:50 AM »
i want your garage floor.  wow. nice.

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Offline GrantC

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Re: GrantC's s2k build || "Holy Crap"! ||
« Reply #184 on: August 16, 2010, 09:49:05 AM »
i want your garage floor.  wow. nice.

Thanks man!  It was non-negotiable that we'd be doing that to the garage.  it's so nice to work on.

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Re: GrantC's s2k build || "Holy Crap"! ||
« Reply #185 on: August 16, 2010, 09:55:43 AM »
Thanks man!  It was non-negotiable that we'd be doing that to the garage.  it's no nice to work on.

The 'N' is sowhere sear the 'S' key. :P

But yes, yes it is.
<+  Hurrbie> becuase ultimasshole

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Re: GrantC's s2k build || "Holy Crap"! ||
« Reply #186 on: August 16, 2010, 10:44:09 AM »
Thanks man!  It was non-negotiable that we'd be doing that to the garage.  it's so nice to work on.

what did you do? what did it cost?

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Offline GrantC

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Re: GrantC's s2k build || "Holy Crap"! ||
« Reply #187 on: August 16, 2010, 10:46:59 AM »
what did you do? what did it cost?

Flexmar from Garage Strategies.  I'm sure there's an equivalent in Calgary.  It cost... the equivalent of an ST civic.  But I didn't have to do any work, and it's warrantied against pickup/cracking/fading.

Offline GrantC

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Re: GrantC's s2k build || "Holy Crap"! ||
« Reply #188 on: August 16, 2010, 10:49:43 AM »
Approx. cost per squarefoot?  Are we're talking $5/sqft or $10/sqft range?

Between there, $6/sqft.  For them to grind (not just wash, or etch), coat, coat, flake, coat, coat, warranty.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/grant_subaru/sets/72157623937751507/

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Offline lynx440

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Re: GrantC's s2k build || "Holy Crap"! ||
« Reply #189 on: August 16, 2010, 05:28:27 PM »
How did you manage to get a drain in your floor?  And where does it go to?

Offline Murray Peterson

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Re: GrantC's s2k build || "Holy Crap"! ||
« Reply #190 on: August 16, 2010, 07:28:02 PM »
My one year old Ankeny sway bar is broken -- badly.  Sigh... :(

Grant -- where did you buy your Saner, and how much was the total bill?  Does it fit well (lot's of clearance)?

Offline GrantC

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Re: GrantC's s2k build || "Holy Crap"! ||
« Reply #191 on: August 16, 2010, 09:22:49 PM »
My one year old Ankeny sway bar is broken -- badly.  Sigh... :(


Was it good while it lasted?  It sounds like *the* bar for a Stock class s2k.

http://ankenyracingenterprises.com/Swaybars.htm

Grant -- where did you buy your Saner, and how much was the total bill?  Does it fit well (lot's of clearance)?

http://shop.outlaw1performance.com/

I bought it right from them, took ~2 weeks to get here.  It was the listed price ($275) + shipping + $11 customs.  It fits well, but the endlinks are a little cheesy, and make popping noises (it's the nature of the beast with pillowballs).

I don't know enough about s2k's or double-wishbones to know off the top of my head where any interference would come from but it looked fine to me while I was installing it.  If you want specific pics let me know and I'll pop the wheel off & try to take them.

Offline Murray Peterson

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Re: GrantC's s2k build || "Holy Crap"! ||
« Reply #192 on: August 16, 2010, 10:03:02 PM »
MY Gendron bar rubbed against the steering rack boot and also rubbed against the brake line.  In both cases, it was under severe load of r-comps.  So, how much clearance below the steering rack boot and how much clearance to the brake line?

The Ankeny bar is (was?) great, but $1200 U.S. is pretty steep for 12 months use :(

I may have to do some lathe work of my own and make a mounting bearing that will last for more than a year.

Offline Murray Peterson

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Re: GrantC's s2k build || "Holy Crap"! ||
« Reply #193 on: August 16, 2010, 10:22:28 PM »
Great news!  I just got an email from Guy and he will send me some replacement bearings (aluminum).  New life for the "old" bar.

Grant -- to answer your question about the bar, it's the stiffest one you can buy.  So, pretty bad understeer at low speeds, but at higher speeds (e.g. Packwood), the car handled like a dream.  Neutral, four wheel controllable drift around every corner.  Throttle steering for the win!

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Re: GrantC's s2k build || "Holy Crap"! ||
« Reply #194 on: August 16, 2010, 11:07:16 PM »
The Ankeny bar is (was?) great, but $1200 U.S. is pretty steep for 12 months use :(

Sweet merciful crap.
I hope you have a scarf made of beautiful afghani silk to go along with that $1200 piece of metal.

Offline Murray Peterson

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Re: GrantC's s2k build || "Holy Crap"! ||
« Reply #195 on: August 17, 2010, 05:26:40 AM »
Sweet merciful crap.
I hope you have a scarf made of beautiful afghani silk to go along with that $1200 piece of metal.

Nope -- not even a picture of one.  And I haven't got the money to buy the recommended Moton dampers for my car -- another $4500 U.S.  Life's not cheap in the fast lane :)

Offline GrantC

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Re: GrantC's s2k build || "Holy Crap"! ||
« Reply #196 on: August 17, 2010, 06:46:50 AM »
Yea, "stock" cars aren't cheap to prep... Not when the other guy is willing to spend $10k on parts...

Offline GrantC

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Re: GrantC's s2k build || "Holy Crap"! ||
« Reply #197 on: August 17, 2010, 06:51:47 AM »
So, how much clearance below the steering rack boot and how much clearance to the brake line?

To the boot, I'm not sure off the top of my head.  I'll take a look tonight.

To the brake lines, plenty since it comes with little spacers to make the brake line tabs longer and move them further away from the end of the bar.
http://www.s2ki.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=174999

Oh, so when you said "broke" you meant the metal-on-metal bushings finally gave up? Not that you twisted a blade off the bar?

Offline Murray Peterson

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Re: GrantC's s2k build || "Holy Crap"! ||
« Reply #198 on: August 17, 2010, 07:07:19 AM »
To the boot, I'm not sure off the top of my head.  I'll take a look tonight.

To the brake lines, plenty since it comes with little spacers to make the brake line tabs longer and move them further away from the end of the bar.
http://www.s2ki.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=174999
Nice design feature -- thoughtful.  Be sure to check those collars for tightness frequently.  The bar pushes sideways with a lot of force, and when it is allowed to move, the bushings get pushed out of their holder.  On my Gendron, I wore through a set of steering rack boots as well as a pair of brake lines -- I wasn't impressed.  Too bad the Saner wasn't available back then.

Quote
Oh, so when you said "broke" you meant the metal-on-metal bushings finally gave up? Not that you twisted a blade off the bar?
Yep.  Problem is, the bushings aren't replaceable or repairable -- they are one piece, with the bar arms welded onto the bar afterwards.

Offline GrantC

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Re: GrantC's s2k build || "Holy Crap"! ||
« Reply #199 on: August 17, 2010, 07:09:55 AM »
Yep.  Problem is, the bushings aren't replaceable or repairable -- they are one piece, with the bar arms welded onto the bar afterwards.

Oh, that all makes sense then.  I figured they were a 2-piece.