Topic: Future of body repair??

[KennyB]

I work for is BMW certified body shop and therefore required to fix their cars how they (BMW Canada) tell me they want the car fixed. I have tried to explain this a few times with members at meets on how we are gluing and riveting in quarter panels instead of welding to get rid of the problem of burned panels on the inside of inaccessible seams areas which will will be a corrosion issue in the future. But is hard to explain without pictures so here they are, and a breif summary for people I haven't had this conversation with so your not completely lost.
This particular one was a bigger job and all the inner structure, outer wheel well and battery tray was welded with resistance welders and some mig, I am not sure if they are planning on getting into doing that with the new method down the road but there is no procedures for it yet so I don't have to worry about it.  Before the new outer skin goes on everything is trimmed to fit and ready to go on, inners primed and painted because they will all be covered after and then the new panel is glued in the seams (with a 2 part glue they make or have made for them), punch riveted (with special bmw equipment) and blind riveted also with rivets they provide. Apparently its as strong if not stronger than the traditional resistance weld and welded then ground down splices but I still haven't seen one myself after a hit in that area to see how it holds up to a collision.
The transitions between the existing sidebody are sleeved (bmw parts) from the back with threaded studs that fit between the panels as seen to give strength as well as keep the panels in place when glue is setting when the plastic nuts are tightened down.  Everything is cleaned away after it cures, studs cut down and everything filled with a special metal filler (made by bmw), primed and then body filler over the primed metal filler for adhesion purposes (bmw says not to fill directly over their metal filler), then primed, painted as usual.
Just finished this one a few days ago that I was taking pictures of on my phone throughout and have another one with basically the exact same damage minus the suspension work that I just finished gluing and riveting together yesterday afternoon. I don't know if this will ever become standard practice in all repairs but I think that its interesting that they are trying to change the ways their cars are fixed to make sure they keep stay on the road looking they way they should after an accident and years after an accident.

[oracle]

I see the riveting way more consistent in terms of workmanship cause welding is more art than anything else, I think this new modern way is easier also if you eliminate the burned panels and wiring, etc. that always makes the repair more expensive than needed is a big plus.

As much as I cringe when I hear rivets, glue, threaded studs, plastic nuts involved in repair I guess it is the new way and will stay for the next 50 years.

Will it rust like any other repair?
   Yes, I don't think is in BMW (or any other) interest in protecting the car for the next 50 years, they only need a repair that is good for ~10 years.. (avg, lifetime of a modern car, I think)

Question:
   Did you save time on that repair by doing it this new way?


Thanks

[Rapier46]

wow.   fantastic work...i cant belive things things like that can be fixed...

[KennyB]

Question:
   Did you save time on that repair by doing it this new way?

In this case not so much because where you save most the time is being able to leave more of the car together due to not having to worry about welding close to trim, side air bags etc as well as the time on the prep end due to not having to clean the inside seams of the existing panels for welding that then need to be cleaned primed and painted after welding. But where all of this either had to be welded to for the inner structure or was new structure it didn't really save much time.  But if just doing a skin it does save a little time due to the fact that you can just cut the old panel away and glue the old one on without even touching the paint on the rest of the car. There is allot of work to prep it properly and am still figuring out tricks to make it all go a little smoother because the procedure manuals are a little vague at times and require some thinking into things before you start rather than just going step by step. And sometimes why they ask you to do certain things aren't really too clear until later in the process if at all lol. I am going down to California next month actually for a few days for training on this through BMW so it should be interesting and have a boat load of questions as well as criticisms/improvements I want to run by them. It seems to have been written by an engineer who doesn't actually do body work himself so allot of of makes sense and works in theory but when actually applied usually wont go as smooth as someone sitting behind a desk may anticipate and you have to add in allot of your own steps to actually make it happen.

We use high frequency resistance welders (spot welder) when doing it the standard way wherever we can and will only mig the splices and plug welds where the spot welder cant access.  So the consistency thing isn't really as much as an issue as opposed to using a mig because the rivets replace the spot welds due to the glue and not being able to weld through the glue without creating acid rings ie. corrosion point.  I still think that a spot weld is stronger than one of those rivets but having the glue adds the additional strength that the rivets lose over a weld.
They are also doing the same thing for quarter replacement on minis but they are simple because there are no splices, the edges of the panel are all hidden so it makes for a really quick easy and clean repair.

[LilDrunkenSmurf]

I have the perfect subaru you can try this on... >.>

[KennyB]

The only thing I would have to do is make the sleeves for the rocker and c-pillar myself because I'm sure I wont get that part from Subaru    easily made tho with the excess new panel.  Your damage isn't bad enough to need to replace the panel is it? I remember seeing a picture of it but cant remember how bad it is.

[LilDrunkenSmurf]

Yes. Yes it is.

[AdamMc]

amazing work!  It blows my mind how good some of you body guys are.   The car looks brand new!

[Zac]

Funny seeing that Mini, we replaced the roof on one at our shop and we were all baffled that it was only glued on