Topic: Shell Rotella T5-a proven high quality oil (Rotella T6, and German Castrol also)

[LilDrunkenSmurf]

When I went to Can Tire @ Shag and Crowchild, there was none, but I ended up picking some up from Country Hills/Harvest Hills Blvd location. (NW)

[Zac]

I know a few high hp evo owners in northern states that swear by this oil. I've ran it for 2 oil changes and using it again this week.

[canehdianJ]

Just like to mention that this is the first oil I haven't had to top up after 1000k (T6)

2006 sti right?

This is my last change with Motul.  T6 it is!

[LilDrunkenSmurf]

04 STi

[skylineguv]

Canadian Tire.

Or WalMart

[Julian]

Has anyone ran this oil on a 2.0L? I'd like to try it on my 05 WRX.

[Zaider]

Has anyone ran this oil on a 2.0L? I'd like to try it on my 05 WRX.

Yep. I've been running it on my EJ207 for the last 12,000km.

2.0L Turbo and 2.5L Turbo can use the same oil.

[Julian]

Yep. I've been running it on my EJ207 for the last 12,000km.

2.0L Turbo and 2.5L Turbo can use the same oil.

I figured as much but better safe than sorry! Thanks Zaider.

[LIGHTSPD]

I took the liberty of doing my own research on this oil.

 1.) First and foremost wear point and protection were really good quite comparable with the Motul EcoEnergy

 2.) Pour point at -25C was quite thick better than a conventional but not better than some of the other synthetics on the market.

 3.) So obviously this oil was made from a good base stock and for those who don't know the only thing that separates oil is base stock and then the aditive package engineered for the oil.

So with this information I decided to call Shell and ask them about this oil and I have a number for their engineering dept if any of you want to call yourself.

Here is what they said condensed from a 45 minute conversation.

a) This  oil is designed to run at no more than 4500 RPM any more and it sheads to fast.

b) This oil has an additive package designed solely for the combustion by of a diesel engine which means.
       
       i) It has more aggressive containment of by products of combustion
       ii) It has more aggressive detergent level than should be used in a gas automobile because diesels have different by products from the combustion and are dirtier.
       iii)I probably spelling this wrong but the emulsion (capabilities of this oil is to hold much larger particles than you would find in gasoline engine.
       iv)It is not capable of holding the contaminants found on smaller motors.
       v)The shearability of the molecular structure is not for high rpm engines.

4. Here's the best part from one of the engineers who creates this oil. "DO NOT RUN THIS IN A HIGH RPM GASOLINE MOTOR"

So you have your choice Bob the oil guy or one of the engineers who created the oil. I put this up with the internet rumor of running your injectors more than 85% will burn them out.

I kept an open mind and had it independently tested and was interested right up until I talked to the engineer. Your choice but I will not recommend this to our clients.

So it is a high quality oil for a diesel NOT GAS.

[Zaider]

Interesting. Do you have the name of the engineer you talked to (pm if you wish)? I work for Shell.

[~Touge/Wangan-]

the band wagon may have broken a wheel after that post. viva la motul!

[Perfect Dark]

the band wagon may have broken a wheel after that post. viva la motul!

Huzzah!  Should I get everyone together for a ticker-tape parade?  Perhaps a cake is in order...let me see what I can do!

[LIGHTSPD]

I do not have the name of the gentleman I was talking to I was transferred a couple times though to different areas. Here is the number call it for yourself 1-800-661-1771.

This isn't a Motul vs Shell thing for me I really was keeping an open mind. I remember years back an independent study showed John Deere oil had one of the best wear qualities however it also was not recommended for high rpm usuage. Then synthetics came on the scene but high lift muscle cars were wiping out camshafts everytime I turned around. We found out new regulations had forced Phosphorous out of oils. etc I have been in the industry  along time and seen a lot of things  and don't just jump.

[silent]

You would have thought that ANY of this would have come up in the sample that Ambystom had analyzed.  I'm still skeptical and will take hard data over the words of an engineer that works for the company.

[Unoriginalusername]

From API certification website.

SN: Introduced in October 2010 for 2011 and older vehicles, designed to provide improved high temperature deposit protection for pistons, more stringent sludge control, and seal compatibility. API SN with Resource Conserving matches ILSAC GF-5 by combining API SN performance with improved fuel economy, turbocharger protection, emission control system compatibility, and protection of engines operating on ethanol-containing fuels up to E85.

CJ-4:For high-speed four-stroke cycle diesel engines designed to meet 2010 model year on-highway and Tier 4 nonroad exhaust emission standards as well as for previous model year diesel engines. These oils are formulated for use in all applications with diesel fuels ranging in sulfur content up to 500 ppm (0.05% by weight). However, the use of these oils with greater than 15 ppm (0.0015% by weight) sulfur fuel may impact exhaust aftertreatment system durability and/or drain interval. CJ-4 oils are especially effective at sustaining emission control system durability where particulate filters and other advanced aftertreatment systems are used. Optimum protection is provided for control of catalyst poisoning, particulate filter blocking, engine wear, piston deposits, low- and high-temperature stability, soot handling properties, oxidative thickening, foaming, and viscosity loss due to shear. API CJ-4 oils exceed the performance criteria of API CI-4 with CI-4 PLUS, CI-4, CH-4, CG-4 and CF-4 and can effectively lubricate engines calling for those API Service Categories. When using CJ-4 oil with higher than 15 ppm sulfur fuel, consult the engine manufacturer for service interval.

According to the API website, oils can meet and exceed both categories and can be considered a duel purpose oil.

4. MULTIPLE PERFORMANCE LEVELS
Oils designed for diesel engine service might also meet gasoline engine service. For these oils the designation is “C” category first followed by the “S” category. “C” category oils have been formulated primarily for diesel engines and may not provide all of the performance requirements consistent with vehicle manufacturers’ recommendations for gasoline-fueled engines

[mudferret]

Keep in mind that there's a degree of assay covering in what the engineer says.  They set out to design a deisel engine oil, whether or not it works well in gas engines is almost inconsequential to them.  It appears that the parameters that were used in designing this oil just happen to meet standards for gas engines as well.  The UOA's I've seen look great.

Given the choice of T-5 and Mobil 1 I'd dive for the T-5, and potentially push old ladies out of the way.

[lophilip]

You would have thought that ANY of this would have come up in the sample that Ambystom had analyzed.  I'm still skeptical and will take hard data over the words of an engineer that works for the company.

I would rather trust the knowledge from the engineer. And to be fair to "Bob the oil guy"'s author never recommended this diesel oil; Instead one of the forum members recommended it - and I believe the forum has fallen to voodoo witch craft to select their best oil.

The thing about the oil analysis is that we don't really know how hard Ambystom pushed his car (and what temperature, how long he drove at that temperature etc), but I'm guessing it was his daily driver so it didn't see high RPM, agressive throttle for a very long length of time. So this oil may be good enough for his purpose - might not be so good for yours.

There is an advantage in buying the proper expensive oil, like Motul, Mobile 1 (choose your brand). These companies have a good reputation in selling a good product and designing an oil for your car and application (may it be a spirited driving or a 24 hour endurance race).

I don't have the knowledge, time, labortary equipment, and a bank of test engine to properly test all these engine oils under various conditions so I can't verify if a Walmart brand oil is a good as a Motul brand, and if it's worth the price.

That being said many people can attest that I drive like a granny (on and off the track) and some of my car's engines is not worth that much, so I don't get the best oil for it.

[LIGHTSPD]

You would have thought that ANY of this would have come up in the sample that Ambystom had analyzed.  I'm still skeptical and will take hard data over the words of an engineer that works for the company.

I would think that if Shell made a "SUPER" oil accidentally they would want to take credit for it not tell people not to run it. Some of the worlds greatest discoveries were made by accident and people sure do take credit for them. Just my opinion. Run what you want it is your engine no one can force you into it but before you follow the trail of lemmings think about things for yourself. Remember when everyone on the net had a rumor that Mohawk 94 was bad because of ethanol where did that rumor get started. Tell that to the guys running E85

PS not sure why I am even here discussing this Lightspeed builds motors

[LIGHTSPD]

Given the choice of T-5 and Mobil 1 I'd dive for the T-5, and potentially push old ladies out of the way.

Be nice to those old ladies Rob one of them might be Mom I wouldn't run Mobil1 in my lawnmower most overmarketed underperforming oil in the market.

[THE EDJ]

You would have thought that ANY of this would have come up in the sample that Ambystom had analyzed.  I'm still skeptical and will take hard data over the words of an engineer that works for the company.

I'm interested in which variables provided in the data support or argue the claim that this oil is only designed for 4500 RPM, causing it to shed too quickly. If this claim has any support, then I wouldn't touch the Rotella.

Also, in regards to "an engineer that works for the company"... how does this discredit their claims? Perhaps they actually know what they are talking about and aren't merely trying to cover just their assays, but yours as well. Just a thought.

[mudferret]

Perhaps they actually know what they are talking about and aren't merely trying to cover just their assays, but yours as well. Just a thought.

I don't disagree with that statement.  In covering their own assays, they do often cover ours as well.

[Zaider]

There is an advantage in buying the proper expensive oil, like Motul, Mobile 1 (choose your brand). These companies have a good reputation in selling a good product and designing an oil for your car and application (may it be a spirited driving or a 24 hour endurance race).

No, they have excellent marketing people.

I would rather trust the knowledge from the engineer. And to be fair to "Bob the oil guy"'s author never recommended this diesel oil; Instead one of the forum members recommended it - and I believe the forum has fallen to voodoo witch craft to select their best oil.

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1818546&page=1

I dunno. These guys seem to know what they are talking about. Lots of oils were recommended to me when I started this thread, I picked the cheapest one that can do the job. To be fair, they also recommended Motul... just doesn't seem worth the price to me.

I would trust hard data over what any engineer said.. especially when he is covering his assay.

The thing about the oil analysis is that we don't really know how hard Ambystom pushed his car (and what temperature, how long he drove at that temperature etc), but I'm guessing it was his daily driver so it didn't see high RPM, agressive throttle for a very long length of time. So this oil may be good enough for his purpose - might not be so good for yours.

Maybe Amby would like to chime in on this?

On his Oil Analysis posted on the first page, wouldn't the viscosity of the oil be less than expected if the oil had sheared excessively? You'd have broken apart the molecular chains. For the high temperature point (210*F), even if some of the chains had coalleced back together (not sure this can happen), then you'd break them apart again at the high temp. Amby's analysis shows none of this.

[GrantC]

Wow, Amby got tired of these threads always turning into Amsoil v. Motul v. Rotella... So he ran the oil, provided quantitative analysis of it, and I thought we could all move on with our life...

Instead we still have anecdotal "some guy I talked to says" evidence, we still have people posting just to say "Motul FTW"...

Darn it.


Bottom line, IMHO.  If the oil meets the specs your engine & owners manual specify (GL-25, API CGDF-4, whatever) then it's fine.  If you have specific reasons to run a particular oil, from price to marketing to sponsorship, GO FOR IT! but it doesn't need to be a big argument.... And if it is going to be a big argument, try to bring some real, first hand non anecdotal or subjective evidence to the party, like Ambystom01 did.

[mudferret]

Engineers are professionals just like doctors, and their advice shouldn't be taken lightly....

I'm aware of that, I'm a member of APEGGA.

[LIGHTSPD]

Wow, Amby got tired of these threads always turning into Amsoil v. Motul v. Rotella... So he ran the oil, provided quantitative analysis of it, and I thought we could all move on with our life...

Instead we still have anecdotal "some guy I talked to says" evidence, we still have people posting just to say "Motul FTW"...

Darn it.


Bottom line, IMHO.  If the oil meets the specs your engine & owners manual specify (GL-25, API CGDF-4, whatever) then it's fine.  If you have specific reasons to run a particular oil, from price to marketing to sponsorship, GO FOR IT! but it doesn't need to be a big argument.... And if it is going to be a big argument, try to bring some real, first hand non anecdotal or subjective evidence to the party, like Ambystom01 did.

I'm out don't have time for this when somebody who works for the "super" oil company says not to use it I listen I kept an open mind and called them not got on a forum and read crap. As a gas fitterr you can check for gas leaks using a lighter you are not supposed to but many do. In a pinch you can substitute water for break fluid but I wouldn't do it. Everyone knows crimp connectors will work but not the right way I take them out everyday from problems. Everyone knows you shouldn't smoke cause you will die sooner. Don't talk on the cell phone while driving but I have to swear at somebody everyday. So do what you want take one of your largest assests( if you don't own a home) and run earthworm extract through it if you like and read on a forum that it was good and cheap.  Just trying to save people trouble. Everyone has made up their mind so do what you want to do.