Author Topic: Shell Rotella T5-a proven high quality oil (Rotella T6, and German Castrol also) (Read 35712 times)

ultimatt · « **Reply #50 on:** April 15, 2011, 09:37:08 am »

I'm sure Subaru's engineers would recommend that you don't modify the car, or increase the boost levels.
That doesn't seem to stop us/you from doing so.

Just because an engineer didn't design something with the intended action in mind, it doesn't mean that the product can't be used for the intended action.
But you'll never get him to officially say it's fine.
C.Y.A.

LIGHTSPD · « **Reply #51 on:** April 15, 2011, 09:46:58 am »

Quote from: ultimatt on April 15, 2011, 09:37:08 am

I'm sure Subaru's engineers would recommend that you don't modify the car, or increase the boost levels.
That doesn't seem to stop us/you from doing so.

Just because an engineer didn't design something with the intended action in mind, it doesn't mean that the product can't be used for the intended action.
But you'll never get him to officially say it's fine.
C.Y.A.

True but I also knew I voided my warranty on a new car and was reducing the life expectancy of the motor.

silent · « **Reply #52 on:** April 15, 2011, 10:01:40 am »

Quote from: LIGHTSPD on April 15, 2011, 08:57:18 am

I would think that if Shell made a "SUPER" oil accidentally they would want to take credit for it not tell people not to run it. Some of the worlds greatest discoveries were made by accident and people sure do take credit for them. Just my opinion. Run what you want it is your engine no one can force you into it but before you follow the trail of lemmings think about things for yourself. Remember when everyone on the net had a rumor that Mohawk 94 was bad because of ethanol where did that rumor get started. Tell that to the guys running E85

PS not sure why I am even here discussing this Lightspeed builds motors

I run the Honda 5W20 synthetic that is recommended for my engine by my manufacturer, I don't care what oil anyone else runs. What I do care about is the fact that people are disputing facts (see the scanned image of Ambystom's oil analysis) with "well this guy said that..." statements. I have been doing analytical chemistry for a few years now, and the stringent methods they use when doing this analysis leaves little to no room for error. Why did they not find any issue with the oil if it's apparently terrible for the engine?

I'm not sure what building motors has to do with this though.

LIGHTSPD · « **Reply #53 on:** April 15, 2011, 10:16:50 am »

Quote from: silent on April 15, 2011, 10:01:40 am

I'm not sure what building motors has to do with this though.

Absolutely nothing except Its in my best interest to see people with hurt motors and I have wasted too much time trying to protect them. I won't be running it through my engine thats all.

THE EDJ · « **Reply #54 on:** April 15, 2011, 10:17:33 am »

Quote from: silent on April 15, 2011, 10:01:40 am

I run the Honda 5W20 synthetic that is recommended for my engine by my manufacturer, I don't care what oil anyone else runs. What I do care about is the fact that people are disputing facts (see the scanned image of Ambystom's oil analysis) with "well this guy said that..." statements. I have been doing analytical chemistry for a few years now, and the stringent methods they use when doing this analysis leaves little to no room for error. Why did they not find any issue with the oil if it's apparently terrible for the engine?

I'm not sure what building motors has to do with this though.

No one has answered this question yet... Which factors in the OP result printout support or argue the claim LIGHTSPD/shellengineerguy is making? Specifically, which elements, molecules, etc. I'm not an analytical chemistry expert, but I'm very "engineering" minded and like to know exactly what factors we are looking at to support our claims.

Zaider · « **Reply #55 on:** April 15, 2011, 10:34:52 am »

Oh. One more question... its recommended for Turbo Diesels, correct? (It is, according to Shell's website)

Its not recommended to run it above 4500rpm? (says an engineer?)

The oil goes inside the turbo... and turbos spin way way way faster than any motor does. If it was going to shear excessively due to high speeds, it would get torn apart in a turbo diesel.

I have no idea how you got through to an actual engineer, seeing as how Shell policy (I work for Shell as an engineer) is to not let consumers talk to the actual engineer, only to Marketting and Consumer Relations people. But if you did, then he was covering his assay and telling you to only use it for what it says on the packaging.

Ambystom01 · « **Reply #56 on:** April 15, 2011, 11:18:40 am »

Quote from: ~Touge/Wangan- on April 15, 2011, 07:34:08 am

the band wagon may have broken a wheel after that post. viva la motul!

Yay, let's all go back to pissing money away on an overpriced motor oil that hasn't actually been tested (ie. no oil analysis) by someone in the WSC. Marketing FTW!

Quote from: silent on April 15, 2011, 08:18:46 am

You would have thought that ANY of this would have come up in the sample that Ambystom had analyzed. I'm still skeptical and will take hard data over the words of an engineer that works for the company.

This, how come to date, none of what you've suggested has become evident through oil analyzes?

I had 8000 km on the oil when I sent it in. During that period, I took part in a winter driving school which meant going onto Ghost Lake and dicking around for a day, hitting high RPMs. While I'm not an aggressive driver, during that 8000 km, I did get on the car at least a handful of times. So no, the oil was not babied in that sense. Was it absolutely snogged on? No.
I'm taking my Miata out of storage some time this month. I've been using Rotella in that too. It's my race car, it lives at high RPM. I'll take a sample and send it in. A few people over on miata.net have made the switch to Rotella and I've yet to hear any negative comments, same goes with NASIOC.
When I eventually get the replacement Subaru for my now sold WRX, I will run Rotella in it as well and send it in for analysis. Hopefully 3 separate WSC cars worth of data will be enough to stop this retarded "he said, she said" crap. uckfay, it's like debating evolution with a bunch of creationists, lol.

LIGHTSPD · « **Reply #57 on:** April 15, 2011, 11:31:32 am »

I'm done here I have everyone's best interests in mind but I did the tests and it did well but I also called the manufacture they may be covering their butts they may not other people can tear out motors or use the cheapest best oil on the market. I push my personal motor to the point of breaking all the time just to see if it will or if it does why. I am not playing the oil game.

Cheers

Ambystom01 · « **Reply #58 on:** April 15, 2011, 11:33:08 am »

I also did the tests, as have other Subaru owners, but I guess they weren't as scientifically sound as phoning someone in Shell's marketing division.

silent · « **Reply #59 on:** April 15, 2011, 11:46:42 am »

Quote from: THE EDJ on April 15, 2011, 10:17:33 am

No one has answered this question yet... Which factors in the OP result printout support or argue the claim LIGHTSPD/shellengineerguy is making? Specifically, which elements, molecules, etc. I'm not an analytical chemistry expert, but I'm very "engineering" minded and like to know exactly what factors we are looking at to support our claims.

Excessive shearing would lead to lower protection levels at higher RPMs and/or temperatures, therefore you would find higher contaminant levels in the oil as a result of increased wear. Blackstone has done enough Subaru samples that something would stand out if there was excessive wear in Ambystom's sample. The seem to support the opposite and actually suggest that he run his oil for a longer interval next time.

Quote from: Zaider on April 15, 2011, 10:34:52 am

I have no idea how you got through to an actual engineer, seeing as how Shell policy (I work for Shell as an engineer) is to not let consumers talk to the actual engineer, only to Marketting and Consumer Relations people. But if you did, then he was covering his assay and telling you to only use it for what it says on the packaging.

As an engineer for Shell, can I run this oil in my car?

THE EDJ · « **Reply #60 on:** April 15, 2011, 11:49:36 am »

Quote from: silent on April 15, 2011, 11:46:42 am

Excessive shearing would lead to lower protection levels at higher RPMs and/or temperatures, therefore you would find higher contaminant levels in the oil as a result of increased wear. Blackstone has done enough Subaru samples that something would stand out if there was excessive wear in Ambystom's sample. The seem to support the opposite and actually suggest that he run his oil for a longer interval next time.

Thanks. Having the information without the ability to properly interpret it would make this whole conversation completely pointless.

Ambystom01 · « **Reply #61 on:** April 15, 2011, 11:51:41 am »

There are a few WSC members running this, or a similar oil, now so I'm sure there will be more information on the subject soon.

Zaider · « **Reply #62 on:** April 26, 2011, 08:23:27 am »

Ok. I received a response from the Shell Engineer that I got in contact with regarding this oil. I have an advantage as I work for Shell here in Calgary. He works down in Houston. I asked specifically about the oil in high-revving (8000rpm) and its suitability in gasoline engines.

Quote

Rotella T6 5W-40 meets API SM performance, so it is suitable for use in gasoline engines. Regarding shearing in your engine, Rotella T6 5W-40 is probably one of the most shear stable products in the market and will experience very little viscosity loss through shear (or at least a lot less than competitive products). It should be fine in the high revving gasoline engines. We have done extensive testing in 4.6L Ford Crown Victoria’s running in a taxi fleet and have seen no issues with oil shearing or any oil performance.

Cam, I am not sure who you were talking to but it was most likely a marketing or corporate communications person, not an engineer.

Hopefully this settles the debate. Those who choose to run something else, go for it. Those who choose to run this can be confident it is a suitable choice.

If anyone has any more specific or technical questions, let me know and I'll try to track down the answer.

jvd · « **Reply #63 on:** April 26, 2011, 08:29:12 am »

Quote from: Zaider on April 26, 2011, 08:23:27 am

Ok. I received a response from the Shell Engineer that I got in contact with regarding this oil. I have an advantage as I work for Shell here in Calgary. He works down in Houston. I asked specifically about the oil in high-revving (8000rpm) and its suitability in gasoline engines.

Cam, I am not sure who you were talking to but it was most likely a marketing or corporate communications person, not an engineer.

Hopefully this settles the debate. Those who choose to run something else, go for it. Those who choose to run this can be confident it is a suitable choice.

If anyone has any more specific or technical questions, let me know and I'll try to track down the answer.

Cool. Thanks for the update.

I've been running it for a few years now, in multiple cars, with no issues.

LilDrunkenSmurf · « **Reply #64 on:** April 26, 2011, 08:30:06 am »

Thanks for the clarification! I think the reason I like this oil so much (other than it doesn't burn off as fast as every other oil I've thrown at my car) is that it's far cheaper than buying 5L of Amsoil from Can Tire.. (yes bigdl, your's is far more competitive pricing.

LIGHTSPD · « **Reply #65 on:** April 26, 2011, 08:40:19 am »

Hey Zaider

Seeing how you have a direct line within the company could you do a check on the additive package. I can already see by the independent testing we did that the base stock is good.

Zaider · « **Reply #66 on:** April 26, 2011, 08:43:36 am »

Quote from: LIGHTSPD on April 26, 2011, 08:40:19 am

Hey Zaider

Seeing how you have a direct line within the company could you do a check on the additive package. I can already see by the independent testing we did that the base stock is good.

Sure. What do you want me to ask?

LIGHTSPD · « **Reply #67 on:** April 26, 2011, 08:51:10 am »

PM me your phone number and I can chat about the various things I want to know rather than over teching a thread.

Cheers

seat safety switch · « **Reply #68 on:** April 26, 2011, 10:19:49 am »

It's a thread about the technical properties of oil; I'd be interested in seeing specifically what you want to know even if it does go way over my head.

~Touge/Wangan- · « **Reply #69 on:** April 26, 2011, 10:47:41 am »

as stated previously. would anyone have any information on using rotella in a rotary engine? i'm currious. very currious.

farva · « **Reply #70 on:** April 26, 2011, 11:02:18 am »

I thought running synthetic in a rotary was a bad idea do to the oil injection.

Ambystom01 · « **Reply #71 on:** April 26, 2011, 11:02:51 am »

I'll be doing some more testing soon. When I get my Miata out, which has been a 5 day battle, I'll take an oil sample and send it in. It was run most of last year on Rotella and was stored with Rotella in the engine. For comparison's sake, the next oil I use will be German Castrol. That way we can get a reference point for how effective Rotella is against another well known, and well liked oil.

~Touge/Wangan- · « **Reply #72 on:** April 26, 2011, 11:08:46 am »

Quote from: farva on April 26, 2011, 11:02:18 am

I thought running synthetic in a rotary was a bad idea do to the oil injection.

the non-synthetic rotella. if they have one?

seat safety switch · « **Reply #73 on:** April 26, 2011, 11:10:33 am »

Quote from: farva on April 26, 2011, 11:02:18 am

I thought running synthetic in a rotary was a bad idea do to the oil injection.

Yeah, rotaries don't get along well with synthetic at all. There is a natural Rotella, but I think T5/T6 are at least semi-synthetic.

teacherman · « **Reply #74 on:** April 26, 2011, 11:16:21 am »

Just putting this out there because I haven't seen it mentioned yet. When comparing the compression loads found at the rod journal of a diesel engine compared to a gasoline engine, they are quite a bit different. The comp. ratio in most of today's diesels are around the 20:1 to 22.5:1 range resulting in cylinder pressures of 450 psi or so. A gasoline engine with a comp. ratio of 8:1 to 9:1 will see compression pressures in the 145-160psi range. Less cylinder pressure = less shearing force at the rod journals in a gasoline engine. Now, spin that gasoline engine faster-8000 rpm or so, oil shearing goes up. Just for easy comparison, it's like 2x3=6 or 4+2=6, at the end of the day it still equals 6 (slow speed high load vs. high speed low load) Turbo's in a gas engine and a diesel engine spin at the same speeds under full boost runs (120,000 rpm give or take)