Author Topic: Coilpack conversion turned ugly  (Read 7090 times)

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Offline Gt93

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Coilpack conversion turned ugly
« on: March 11, 2012, 10:43:57 pm »
I just did the coilpack conversion and it turned out like itshay. At first it wouldn't start so I rewired everything and finally it started but all i got was a ton of rattles and bangs that sounded like heatshields. The engine is hot as hell and the indicator light on the dash that looks like a chevy symbol with lines coming off it turned on. I have no power behind the pedal and it drives like a bag of itshay. I have no idea what to do I just need help. Maybe if i can get someone to come look at it or something that would be great.

Offline codester-

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Re: Coilpack conversion turned ugly
« Reply #1 on: March 11, 2012, 10:52:55 pm »
did you follow robs thread on nasioc?

when i did mine and first started the car it only ran on 3 cylinders and then i bought a new coil, replaced the miss firing one and then it wouldn't even start at all..
i then went and bought all new spark plugs, still wouldn't start. so i cut and re did all the soldering for the ignitor and then it fired up perfectly

Offline Gt93

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Re: Coilpack conversion turned ugly
« Reply #2 on: March 11, 2012, 11:13:20 pm »
I used every write up on the net, I'm sure it was running on 3 pistons too. I used small connectors that connected directly to each small prong on the new coils ( I replaced them all ). I didnt solder because I just couldnt get it right. I'm thinking the problem could be the connectors I used. The plugs were new about a year ago NGK Plats. I'm thinking I should replace those now too.

Offline GC8REX

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Re: Coilpack conversion turned ugly
« Reply #3 on: March 11, 2012, 11:14:23 pm »
I just did the coilpack conversion and it turned out like itshay. At first it wouldn't start so I rewired everything and finally it started but all i got was a ton of rattles and bangs that sounded like heatshields. The engine is hot as hell and the indicator light on the dash that looks like a chevy symbol with lines coming off it turned on. I have no power behind the pedal and it drives like a bag of itshay. I have no idea what to do I just need help. Maybe if i can get someone to come look at it or something that would be great.

That indicator is just telling you your cat is overheating, so something is very wrong with the engine.

I'd say try pulling plugs and check them out, and start fresh with the conversion, ensuring good soldering at every connection. Then run diagnostics and grab codes from the engine (http://www.perth-wrx.com/vb/stock-ecu-discussion/30024-how-read-subaru-cel-gc8-stock-engine-control-unit-only.html)

Offline tommyatomic

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Re: Coilpack conversion turned ugly
« Reply #4 on: March 12, 2012, 12:44:28 am »
I used every write up on the net, I'm sure it was running on 3 pistons too. I used small connectors that connected directly to each small prong on the new coils ( I replaced them all ). I didnt solder because I just couldnt get it right. I'm thinking the problem could be the connectors I used. The plugs were new about a year ago NGK Plats. I'm thinking I should replace those now too.

I am not trying to be rude or harsh but this should be the first hint something went wrong with your install. I've done the coil conversion with help and then helped someone else do the conversion. I've met many people with successful conversions. They were all soldered. On the two I was involved with I soldered everything. I did all of my connections with high temp solder, then I used dielectric grease to prevent the remote possibility of any future potential corrosion, then electrical tape and heat shrink tubing to cover and insulate all of the solder connections including soldering my crimped connections to the ring terminals.

If you didn't solder the connections then how did you make the connections? Its possible you are right an you need a second set of eyes but its also possible you did everything right and you just have a bad connection because it wasnt soldered.

The first thing people have trouble with when soldering is getting both pieces of material being soldered hot enough. You should heat both ends together for a bit before you try to add solder. If you cant get them hot enough then you need to clean and tin the tip of your soldering iron or you need a more powerful soldering iron.

When both connections are hot enough you apply the solder to the connections (NOT TO THE SOLDERING IRON) and the connections will literally suck the solder into the connection joining the two pieces. Having said that if you get your connections too hot you will melt the plastic insulator right off the wire. It takes a bit of practice to get the heat perfect.

Offline bejamin

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Re: Coilpack conversion turned ugly
« Reply #5 on: March 12, 2012, 01:06:03 am »
When you used the small connectors to the pins on the coil packs did you ensure there is a gap between them after you pushed all 3 on?
"It's a rally car. And we were bored with chess"

Offline Jarrod

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Re: Coilpack conversion turned ugly
« Reply #6 on: March 12, 2012, 09:02:08 am »
Agreed with the above two comments.  Those push on connectors are no good!  They always come loose.  It helps if you put them on then clamp them down but even then it's iffy (and there's no room to get under it to clamp anyways).  I know it's a little tough to get solder on there so what you could do is get those connectors on and then apply the solder as you can heat up both easily and it should flow.
Do this and I guarantee you'll be working.

Offline farva

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Re: Coilpack conversion turned ugly
« Reply #7 on: March 12, 2012, 09:36:11 am »
Another thing to check is that the coils are hooked up correctly Ie cylinder one to cylinder one that would create some big issues.

Offline Gt93

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Re: Coilpack conversion turned ugly
« Reply #8 on: March 12, 2012, 10:38:15 am »
Well does the solder conduct electricity? That's my main concern I figured it did. I also am scared to melt the plastic when soldering. All I have is the basic torch, wire, and paste I'm guessing an Iron would be a better idea. 

rith

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Re: Coilpack conversion turned ugly
« Reply #9 on: March 12, 2012, 10:51:56 am »
Yes.. use a soldering iron lol.

Offline Jarrod

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Re: Coilpack conversion turned ugly
« Reply #10 on: March 12, 2012, 10:52:43 am »
You don't solder with a torch... unless you're doing plumbing with copper.  Not sure what the paste is but oh well.  Get metal solder, the little wire like looking thing.
You can get a soldering iron for like $15 at Canadian Tire.  And yes solder does conduct electricity which is why it's used to connect wires together ;)
The plastic bit might melt but if it's only a little bit then who cares.  What you could do is take the plastic bit off though, slip the wire through the metal ring and then clamp the metal down (though it may be too late for this, you could pull them out and redo it though).

rith

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Re: Coilpack conversion turned ugly
« Reply #11 on: March 12, 2012, 10:55:01 am »


I think he's talking about flux paste.. man.. you should watch a video about how to solder electronics first before taking a butane/propane torch out.

AWDFTW

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Re: Coilpack conversion turned ugly
« Reply #12 on: March 12, 2012, 05:19:43 pm »
He might be talking about a butane torch with a solder tip that screws on. 

You can get a benzomatic brand one at Canadian tire. They're not the greatest but they *do* work.

Offline bejamin

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Re: Coilpack conversion turned ugly
« Reply #13 on: March 12, 2012, 09:48:16 pm »
If you're asking if solder conducts electricity, should you really be doing this job by yourself. You should double your efforts to find someone to help you before you do some real damage. No offence but it sounds like you could use some help and guidance. 
"It's a rally car. And we were bored with chess"

Offline Shadypro

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Re: Coilpack conversion turned ugly
« Reply #14 on: March 13, 2012, 09:54:40 am »
IMO as a mechanic if you not comfy or for whatever reason cant work with solder at the very least you must use full metal butt connectors with shrink tube. You can get shrinkable butts or butts and skrink. I'm doin my convert this weekend and given how imperative that resistance be null in the connections I will be using all three!

What was previous mentioned abou heating both wires before applying solder is 100% correct, heat the isspay out of the wires and then apply. As stated it will literally pull itself to yhe heat of the wires!Cheers!

Offline kijho

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Re: Coilpack conversion turned ugly
« Reply #15 on: March 13, 2012, 11:41:25 am »
If you're asking if solder conducts electricity, should you really be doing this job by yourself. You should double your efforts to find someone to help you before you do some real damage. No offence but it sounds like you could use some help and guidance. 
. This makes me Very happy I had your help!!

Hopefully you getting figured out!

SausageCat

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Re: Coilpack conversion turned ugly
« Reply #16 on: March 13, 2012, 01:37:47 pm »
+1 for insulating the connectors!

Offline tommyatomic

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Re: Coilpack conversion turned ugly
« Reply #17 on: March 13, 2012, 02:52:09 pm »
Lets assume for the purpose of being constructive that all your connections are routed correctly as per the various how-to guides. Maybe you want to recheck your work but im gonna throw down a little trust and assume you wired it all correct.

Im not sure how to say this without sounding condescending but you need to watch several U-tube videos on electronics soldering. 4 or five of them. Rewatch as necessary. Seriously you can find videos on how to do almost anything on U-tube.

Buy flux core solder for electronics. It will be thin. like pencil lead thin or thinner. If your soldering gear uses flux paste it may be for plumbing. Dont use plumbing solder on automotive electronics. It needs to conduct electricity not hold water and typically it will be two large a diameter for fine work.
Buy a $15-20 electric soldering iron with a fine tip. It wont conduct as much heat as a big fat tip so its easier to heat your materiel without going too hot too fast.
Tin the tip of your soldering iron. This is just using solder and a wet sponge or rag to keep the tip shiny. Shiny iron tips conduct heat better.

If you crimped your connections thats fine. leave them crimped. Its easier. You just need to solder the crimped connections to make sure they all conduct electricity correctly.

Then use electrical tape + heatshrink tubing to make sure they are properly insulated. As I said before I use a little bit of dielectric grease on the connections after soldering but before I tape them up and heatshrink them - to prevent any future corrosion from potential hot/cold/moisture issues. Its a personal paranoia choice not a "must-do" step in the process.

Offline Gt93

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Re: Coilpack conversion turned ugly
« Reply #18 on: March 14, 2012, 02:20:53 pm »
Ok so now everything is soldered and shrink wrapped. The car starts fine runs fine but it's still in limp mode. The pedal feels heavier and the exhaust sounds a bit louder, I still peaak at less then .5 bars of boost tho. Do I need to reset my ecu?

Also I'm in the process of replacing my complete exhaust from the turbo, its wrecked, its old, its holy as hell. I also took the car to speed tech racing developement to do the clutch and they stripped two bolt off the turbo which is causing a bit of a leak in that area of the exhaust. I'm not sure if its relevant to the limp mode problem but hey worth bringing up.

Offline GC8REX

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Re: Coilpack conversion turned ugly
« Reply #19 on: March 14, 2012, 02:55:37 pm »
Ok so now everything is soldered and shrink wrapped. The car starts fine runs fine but it's still in limp mode. The pedal feels heavier and the exhaust sounds a bit louder, I still peaak at less then .5 bars of boost tho. Do I need to reset my ecu?

Also I'm in the process of replacing my complete exhaust from the turbo, its wrecked, its old, its holy as hell. I also took the car to speed tech racing developement to do the clutch and they stripped two bolt off the turbo which is causing a bit of a leak in that area of the exhaust. I'm not sure if its relevant to the limp mode problem but hey worth bringing up.

Probably not linked to the limp problem but that is definitely not good to run with, get those holes fixed asap.

Yes I would recomend an ECU reset. Do it the proper way with the connectors under the dash:
http://www.perth-wrx.com/vb/stock-ecu-discussion/30025-gc8-engine-control-unit-reset-proper-way.html

Offline Gt93

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Re: Coilpack conversion turned ugly
« Reply #20 on: March 14, 2012, 07:07:49 pm »
I have a fujitsubo exhaust ready to go im just waiting on ky downpipe.

Offline KLZCYA

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Re: Coilpack conversion turned ugly
« Reply #21 on: March 14, 2012, 07:30:52 pm »
It's leaking off the downpipe? Not a HUGE deal but get it fixed for sure. Waiting on the downpipe isnt a big deal, depending on the size of leak.
6 speed + 550 tuned GC8 = good fun.

Offline tommyatomic

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Re: Coilpack conversion turned ugly
« Reply #22 on: March 14, 2012, 08:57:28 pm »
Now that your connections are soldered and your car isnt trying to shake itself apart. Yes to the ECU reset. It will help but it can only so much. Adjust the tension on your throttle cable. Re-adjust your idle by rotating your IACV and maybe do the TB IACV coolant bypass while your at it.

You really need all of your plumbing in order. Fix all the exhaust leaks otherwise the 'lag' will be intolerable.

Offline codester-

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Re: Coilpack conversion turned ugly
« Reply #23 on: March 14, 2012, 09:51:01 pm »
TB IACV coolant bypass? I'm intrigued, what is this

Offline GC8REX

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Re: Coilpack conversion turned ugly
« Reply #24 on: March 14, 2012, 09:55:41 pm »
TB IACV coolant bypass? I'm intrigued, what is this

Our cars by design run coolant through the throttle body and iacv to keep it warm during winter and thus help cold starts. Bypassing this will keep the cold intercooled air from getting warmed before entering your engine.