Topic: cha0tik's 2016 WRX - Spring oil change

[cha0tik]

Looking forward to seeing how it goes today. I also have the "clicking".. actually IIRC I've had it in my 05,06 and now the 15.

You bet, I'll keep you all updated!

I should have asked you yesterday to demo me the clicking. With my studded winters, heater running, musice and now muffler delete I have no idea if my car has the problem cause I can't hear any slight noises.

Haha! The woes of owning a louder exhaust. I can let you know the next time I see you, around end of November.

[cha0tik]

So, this morning I had my appointment at Subaru City, for a master cylinder replacement that was supposed to take care of the clicking sound coming from my clutch pedal.

In typical dealership service dept fashion, they created another issue that I noticed when I headed back to pick up the car (in addition to NOT resolving the previous one).

After I picked up my keys from the service desk, I headed back to the car anxiously, while reading the print out of the work order. I quickly became alarmed that it mentioned "clicking" still being present, but I had high hopes that it was something else.
I get in the car, and what do you know, it's the exact same sound. I head back to the service desk and they're trying to tell me it is the clutch sensor, that has to do with the pedal being fully depressed in order to start the engine. I politely explained that this is the exact same sound that I was getting before and that it seems the master cylinder was replaced for no reason.
After another 45 minutes of the car being in the shop, I get called to the service desk and one of the guys there tells me that they're going to need to order some part of the pedal assembly. Since I had a hunch that this might be the actual issue, I asked for a part # so that I could check into it. He refused to provide me with the part # and mentioned that I will only find out AFTER they install it. I kept telling him that I'd want to know what gets installed on my car PRIOR to the actual service, to which I was told that the 2016s might differ from the 2015s, so they wanna check to see if it truly is the same part #. As far as I know, the model years are identical, but either way, I agreed for him to put the part on order (pedal assembly).

I headed back to the car and right as I was about to pull out of the lot, I notice that my brake pedal makes a bit of a "hissing" sound, which it did not make before. To me, this could only mean that when installing the master cylinder, they didn't bleed the lines properly.
I went back to the service desk again and a tech came out to the car with me. After a quick inspection and fluid top-up, I'm told it is the brake booster. I explained that I highly doubt this but was assured it would "take care of itself". Since I had to drive back up North, I left shortly after that. I did mention that if this now extra " hissing" noise is still present when I return for the pedal assembly replacement, I expect it to be dealt with as well.

The "hissing" sound that is coming from the brake pedal, AFTER master cylinder replacement:



The initial "clicking" sound, that is still present after master cylinder replacement:



tl;dr - went in to Subaru City for master cylinder replacement to eliminate clutch "clicking" noise. Same clicking noise is still present and it seems the lines weren't bled properly, since my brake pedal now has a "hissing" sound. Dealership will order a new pedal assembly to hopefully fix the clicking sound. Hopeful that they'll resolve the now present brake pedal issue as well.

[10secdream]

Is the clutch ticking sound only audible when the vehicle is running?

[cha0tik]

Unfortunately, it is audible even with the engine off.

[10secdream]

When I leave work today I will try listening to see if mine is making a noise.

[seat safety switch]

Did they have to take the brake master cylinder off to get at the clutch master cylinder? 

Otherwise I'm not really seeing how changing the clutch master would have put bubbles in the brake lines.

[10secdream]

The clutch and brake fluid reservoir are integrated on the 2015+

[seat safety switch]

That's crazy, like a Cavalier.

Objection withdrawn. Check the vacuum line on the booster to make sure they actually did it up.

[Rad_Racer]

So my STi brakes have not been touched.

When driving, no sound from brake pedal. When stopped, the first brake application makes no noise, but any successive pumps will result in the hissing noise. With the car off, it makes the hissing noise. Appears to be normal.

The only thing to check is that the pedal stays firm when you hold it down with a lot of pressure. It shouldn't slowly sink down and it shouldn't feel spongy under heavy braking.

I also have the clutch click, but I've always assumed it was a contact switch (for ignition and cruise control logic) or a spring in the linkage that is twisting a bit when it is under tension. I never hear it unless I'm cruising very gently with no radio or fan on, so I just never really worried about it.

[10secdream]

Just confirmed that I have a clutch click about halfway into the pedal travel. I also just assumed this to be related to the clutch switch. I also have a hissing sound in the brake pedal but my pedal is firm. It has been like this since day 1 and has stayed constant since I added new brake pads and bled the system with DOT4.

[kijho]

I realized on my way home, I think I might have this little click too. It's so so so faint though.. my '13 STI actually did the exact same sound (it was actually far louder, and was extremely present after car washes).  No hissing on the brakes though... 

[Rathburn]

Also checked, have the click. I don't believe it's a mechanical sound from the engine bay, sounds like a switch in the cabin. It's plasticky sounding, like a light switch, not at all mechanical or metallic. Definitely doesn't seem like anything to worry about, like you guys said, probably the neutral lock out switch. I haven't had any problems and I've had my car for a year and a half now.

The hissing on the other hand, I'd look carefully into that.

[cha0tik]

After everything is said and done, I should have probably left the click as it was. But what I'm more peeved about is the misdiagnosis. I'm told it's the cylinder, then after it's replaced, I'm told that the clicking is normal. Only that now, I have a spongy brake pedal and a softer clutch.

The pedal doesn't sink to the floor, but there's definitely some air in there. Tech at the dealership said it was the booster, but it definitely wasn't like this before they touched it. I think I will need to re-bleed the lines, or at least ask them to do it again next time I'm in.

OR, I could just bleed them myself and throw in some DOT 4 in there. I just don't want to give them excuses to deny me warranty on anything in the future, as they're known to do. Anyone who knows the service manager at this dealership knows what I'm talking about.

[tawheed]

Stories like these are why I always hesitate to take my car to a dealer, even for warranty work.

[Rad_Racer]

The misdiagnosis is certainly annoying. I don't understand why they would suggest it was the MC. The MC is literally a piston with a rubber seal moving back and forth inside a polished cylinder. There is NOTHING in there that would make a click sound, especially mid-stroke. Anyone in the service department should have known better.

I completely gave up on the dealership shortly after I got my car. 2 things that lead to me doing all of my own work:
1) Rear diff was leaking with <100km on the car. Dealership claimed it was NORMAL. Yes, a brand new car should apparently be leaking on my garage floor. I provided them with a TSB from Subaru of America for that specific issue. They said they can't do anything because it's from SoA and not SC. ...as if that has any influence on what the actual problem is and whether it should be fixed under warranty. A few weeks later, SC finally issued the same TSB and then they did the work.
2) Girl in the parts department was surprised that my STi was AWD. Seriously?   

Now I just keep detailed records and scans of all my receipts. If I ever have a warranty issue that Subaru Calgary denies, I'll elevate it to Subaru Canada.

[cha0tik]

I've definitely learned my lesson and won't be taking the car there for anything once this is all over (warranty work included). I'd rather drive all the way to Red Deer.

As for the diagnosis on the MC, it was made by one of their apprentices, who was somehow allowed to work alone on my car. BOTH times. Once when he misdiagnosed the issue and again when he installed the new MC.

If everyone seems to be getting the click, I'm just wondering if I should just re-bleed the system myself and call it a day. This is all just one big headache I'd rather not have lol

[10secdream]

So far everyone with a VA platform vehicle that has responded to this thread has a click so unless your click is different or noticeably loud it is probably normal.

[cha0tik]

So far everyone with a VA platform vehicle that has responded to this thread has a click so unless your click is different or noticeably loud it is probably normal.

Yep, you're absolutely right.

The only reason that I became alarmed and took it in for this "warranty" job was because I was told that the click I'm hearing is the master cylinder. You'd think competent employees working in the Service department at a dealership would know what they're talking about. But actually, reading back that last sentence, I realize that I should have known. "Competent employees in service department" is a contradiction in itself, especially at Subaru City.

I'm going to check the vacuum line on the booster just now, and if everything is connected, I'll just have to bleed the system myself.

[10secdream]

With the help of someone of course. Tough to bleed the brakes by yourself without one of those fancy machines.

[cha0tik]

With the help of someone of course. Tough to bleed the brakes by yourself without one of those fancy machines.

Of course. Which makes me wonder how the apprentice bled the system by himself when he worked on my car. He MAY have used a power bleeder, but somehow, I don't see the dealership investing in one of those.

[RockThePylon]

The dealership will have a vacuum bleeder. But most techs don't give a uckfay, so to them, mushy is fine as long as the pedal doesn't go to the floor.

Should take it back citing safety concerns.

[MellowsDad]

Having just had suspension and drivetrain work completed on my 2016 WRX I also feel like they left air in the brake lines.

Same issue, it doesn't sink to the floor, but I can step on the brake and feel the "sponge" effect and then release step on the brake again and get the "grab" feel I would expect.  Seems odd we both have this issue.

[cha0tik]

The dealership will have a vacuum bleeder. But most techs don't give a uckfay, so to them, mushy is fine as long as the pedal doesn't go to the floor.

Should take it back citing safety concerns.

That's a good point. Thanks for that. I'll definitely bring up safety and have them re-bleed the lines again. Funny thing though, the apprentice tech mentioned the same thing: "well, the pedal doesn't go to the floor, so there shouldn't be any air in there. It should take care of itself".

Having just had suspension and drivetrain work completed on my 2016 WRX I also feel like they left air in the brake lines.

Same issue, it doesn't sink to the floor, but I can step on the brake and feel the "sponge" effect and then release step on the brake again and get the "grab" feel I would expect.  Seems odd we both have this issue.

If they did use a vacuum bleeder and had one person do a half-assay job like on mine, that's probably why lol
I still think bleeding the system is best done with 2 people, the good old-fashioned way.

I'm most likely gonna ignore the click and have them re-bleed the lines until the pedal feel is stiff, as it was from factory. There is no way I'm paying them for ANY labour costs on an issue they've created.

[RockThePylon]

Having just had suspension and drivetrain work completed on my 2016 WRX I also feel like they left air in the brake lines.

Same issue, it doesn't sink to the floor, but I can step on the brake and feel the "sponge" effect and then release step on the brake again and get the "grab" feel I would expect.  Seems odd we both have this issue.

Well, air in the lines won't feel like that. If a double-tap firms it up, then it goes soft again after moving, I'd lean towards brake rotor runout.

"well, the pedal doesn't go to the floor, so there shouldn't be any air in there. It should take care of itself".

Hahaha. Classic apprentice. Dude doesn't want to do more work, or get in trouble for doing itshay work.

If they did use a vacuum bleeder and had one person do a half-assay job like on mine, that's probably why lol
I still think bleeding the system is best done with 2 people, the good old-fashioned way.

It doesn't matter what method you use if "it doesn't go to the floor" is your benchmark.

[cha0tik]

Upon further inspection underneath the hood, it honestly seems that they didn't even touch the master cylinder itself. I'm really beginning to wonder what they actually did. I'm suspecting that they bled the system only. I'll have to call in and confirm exactly what was done as the printout of the work order is very vague.

Everything seems to be connected properly, only that I have a much softer clutch and a mushier brake pedal (takes a bit of pedal action before the brakes engage). I'm gonna book an appointment to have them re-bleed the system as soon as I can.