Topic: DIY endlinks using Heim joints

[Vancouver98STi]

Okay, but what are you hoping to accomplish by finding a 'superior' unicorn endlink?

"Hoping to accomplish"? Oh, I dunno... maybe find a set of endlinks that won't bend, bind, squawk and/or fail completely.

What tangible difference do you think it will make?

I don't understand some of the attitude being expressed in this thread. Not specifically by you, but in general. Why does there appear to be resistance to perhaps improving the status quo?

If there is no way to improve this aspect of these cars, I guess I'll eventually find out on my own... but it seems weird to be figuratively shot down for wanting to try something different.

[Canuckrz]

I think their point is more at a certain point if they aren't bending then you aren't really getting much performance wise other than scoring bench racing points for having heim joints on your car. And most of the alternatives just don't do well in our climate so they're a downgrade if anything. It's like having a strut tower bar that is strong enough to hang the entire car from, sure it's neat I guess, but what are you really gaining over one that just eliminates the strut tower flex. It's just blowing cash for no real purpose that could be used in more tangible ways.

If I was to get a set of endlinks which I might have to soon I'd just be going with GNP. They're solid, they sell replacement bushing kits, and they're a Canadian company with free shipping.

[Vancouver98STi]

I think their point is more at a certain point if they aren't bending then you aren't really getting much performance wise... It's just blowing cash for no real purpose that could be used in more tangible ways.

If I was to get a set of endlinks which I might have to soon I'd just be going with GNP. They're solid, they sell replacement bushing kits, and they're a Canadian company with free shipping.

Hey, I'd be all for buying a Canadian made product if it was fairly priced and made to perform. I looked up the GNP front endlinks for my car, and found them Here. $140... and unfortunately they're the same "dogbone" style that appear prone to having problems in this application. For basically the same money I could buy on eBay the Whiteline KLC182 endlinks (or a different manufacturer's similar style endlinks) which have the superior "ball link" on one end (which IMO would better compensate for the poor geometry between the ends of the front sway bar and the mounts on the control arms).

However, I'm not going to gamble $140 on any endlinks if I'm not sure they can even be adapted... which is why I mentioned (and pictured) the Whiteline KLC182 endlinks in this thread to begin with. I'm hoping someone familiar with them can comment. Anyway, I'm in no big hurry to figure this out. Right now there's snow on the ground (very un-Vancouver weather), so I'm not working on the car, and autocross won't be for another five months or so. 

[ultimatt]

"Hoping to accomplish"? Oh, I dunno... maybe find a set of endlinks that won't bend, bind, squawk and/or fail completely.

I don't understand some of the attitude being expressed in this thread. Not specifically by you, but in general. Why does there appear to be resistance to perhaps improving the status quo?

If there is no way to improve this aspect of these cars, I guess I'll eventually find out on my own... but it seems weird to be figuratively shot down for wanting to try something different.

http://www.whiteline.com.au/product_detail4.php?part_number=KLC139&sq=27863 ??

?
https://www.mcmaster.com/#rod-ends/=15smln2
https://www.mcmaster.com/#rod-ends/=15smnfp

(I still think it sounds like you're trying to solve a made up problem though)

[funk32]

these wont bend/bind/squawk or fail anytime soon.

20141022_130916 by David, on Flickr

[rith]

these wont bend/bind/squawk or fail anytime soon.

NSFW /winter

[Vancouver98STi]

http://www.whiteline.com.au/product_detail4.php?part_number=KLC139&sq=27863 ??

If you take another peek at the images I posted earlier, you'll notice that those endlinks you linked to won't mount on my control arms.

--------------------------------------------------------

?
https://www.mcmaster.com/#rod-ends/=15smln2
https://www.mcmaster.com/#rod-ends/=15smnfp

these wont bend/bind/squawk or fail anytime soon...

Possibly not... but as has been pointed out numerous times in this thread, they'll eventually "clunk".

They won't last long due to grit and corrosion.

uh...  they clunk.

After a couple years any unshielded sphericals used like that are going to clunk.

Yes, people have tried using Heim joints, but because of them being unsealed and open to the elements, lack of durability becomes a rather limiting factor.

NSFW /winter

--------------------------------------------------------

I still think it sounds like you're trying to solve a made up problem though.

I suppose that's an opinion that anyone/everyone risks facing when they wish to improve upon an existing situation.

[ultimatt]

If you take another peek at the images I posted earlier, you'll notice that those endlinks you linked to won't mount on my control arms.

--------------------------------------------------------

Possibly not... but as has been pointed out numerous times in this thread, they'll eventually "clunk".
--------------------------------------------------------

The mcmaster carr stuff I tried to link isn't a heim joint. It's a ball joint just like the one you linked. Sorry that I didn't know their website sucked. But maybe you could take a look before getting all "smarter than thou"




And why won't the KCL139 work?
Aren't the STi control arms the aluminum single tab style?  Are the wagons different?

[Vancouver98STi]

The mcmaster carr stuff I tried to link isn't a heim joint. It's a ball joint just like the one you linked. Sorry that I didn't know their website sucked. But maybe you could take a look before getting all "smarter than thou"

Let's get this straight... You post links to two pages of assorted heim joints, and for some reason you feel I'm "getting all smarter than thou" because I wasn't aware you were trying to refer to a ball joint somewhere? Sure, whatever.

And why won't the KCL139 work?
Aren't the STi control arms the aluminum single tab style?  Are the wagons different?

Yes, the wagons are different... which is why I posted an image of the Whiteline endlinks with those particular style mounts at each end (and both images of control arms I previously linked to show the double mounting tabs, or "ears" as I referred to them earlier).

Although the Whiteline endlinks (KLC182) pictured below definitely don't qualify for being within a "$50 budget", and they're not even designed for my car, I'm wondering if the end that mounts on the control arm (similar to picture above) could be narrowed and made to fit between the two "ears"? This is about the only style that looks skookum enough to withstand any abuse. Comments?

This is the control arm style on a '98 JDM Impreza STi wagon...

[RockThePylon]

Let's get this straight... You post links to two pages of assorted heim joints, and for some reason you feel I'm "getting all smarter than thou" because I wasn't aware you were trying to refer to a ball joint somewhere? Sure, whatever.

I like the cut of your jib.

[Vancouver98STi]

I like the cut of your jib.

Heh heh... thanks. I'm just trying to have a friendly open discussion on freakin' endlink options, and for whatever reason it's been somewhat of a challenge. But hey, I'll stick with it.

[ultimatt]

Let's get this straight... You post links to two pages of assorted heim joints, and for some reason you feel I'm "getting all smarter than thou" because I wasn't aware you were trying to refer to a ball joint somewhere? Sure, whatever.

Yeah, but did you even bother to look?

Both links now take me to the same page, why would I post two different links to the same page?

The items I was attempting to link (which is somehow my fault that Mcmaster-Carr website doesn't have direct links to product pages) were items that would be what you're looking for. But you wanted to be a smart assay instead of looking at the page, which does have ball joints on it. Under a label "Metric Heavy Duty Ball Joint Linkages"



Stud and Shank
Thread Size   Lg. (A),
mm   Stud Lg.
(B), mm   Lg (C),
mm   Thread Dp.
(F), mm   Static Radial
Load Cap., lbs.       Each       Each
M5 × 0.8   25   10   30   16   265   6275K52   $10.32   6275K62   $10.32
M6 × 1   25   10   30   16   375   6275K53   10.79   6275K63   10.79
M8 × 1.25   31.5   12.5   36   19   985   6275K54   12.09   6275K64   12.09
M10 × 1.25   37   17   43   23   1,664   6275K55   13.93   6275K65   13.93
M10 × 1.5   37   21   43   23   1,663   6275K57   14.76   6275K67   14.76
M12 × 1.75   50   20   50   27   2,226   6275K56   22.30   6275K66   22.30

The other item I linked was "Square-Shoulder Solid Rod Ends" which might work for the bottom bit but maybe not.



Metric Sizes
M6 × 1.0   6mm   13mm   50mm   37mm   6mm   3800K17   7.26   3800K18   9.90
M8 × 1.25   8mm   16mm   50mm   35mm   8mm   3800K19   8.38   3800K21   15.22
M10 × 1.5   10mm   19mm   125mm   108mm   10mm   3800K22   11.66   3800K23   20.76
M12 × 1.75   12mm   25mm   150mm   131mm   12mm   3800K24   11.98   3800K25   26.08
M16 × 2.0   16mm   32mm   150mm   127mm   16mm   3800K26   20.48   3800K27   42.28
M20 × 2.5   20mm   38mm   175mm   148mm   20mm   3800K28   33.08   3800K29   47.78

The also have a selection of spacers which may help to build the bottom portion of your endlink.

So yeah, I'm a little peeved that you're being a snot, despite the fact that I am trying help you with an endevor that I don't even see any value in.

[carguyjon]

I've spent the last 20 years working the bugs out of my Fieros... so this should be a piece of cake. Heh heh...

Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

That explains it.

[Vancouver98STi]

That explains it.

Explains what... that I enjoy a challenge? You're right! 

Yeah, but did you even bother to look?

Yes, I most certainly did. And on both pages I immediately saw no fewer than twelve Heim joints pictured right at the top. With no explanation whatsoever supplied with your links, I had no idea what you were expecting me to focus on.

Both links now take me to the same page, why would I post two different links to the same page?

I dunno... you tell me! Did you not bother to check your own links after you posted them?

The items I was attempting to link (which is somehow my fault that Mcmaster-Carr website doesn't have direct links to product pages)...

Well, it sure as heck wasn't my fault. 

Metric Heavy Duty Ball Joint Linkages

Yes, something like that could conceivably work at the sway bar end... if lubrication could be added.

The other item I linked was "Square-Shoulder Solid Rod Ends" which might work for the bottom bit but maybe not.

I don't believe that would work for the connection at the control arm end. The rod end would be swiveling on the bolt that's attaching it to the CA. Unlubricated metal against metal. Just wouldn't last.

But you wanted to be a smart assay

I'm a little peeved that you're being a snot

Perhaps if you refrain from the baseless accusations and insults we can continue this discussion in a more favorable climate.

[GrantC]

If you want to not listen to why we haven't felt it worth the time/effort/cost (because there's "good enough" and easy off the shelf options for endlinks), go for it.

Heck, if you want to DIY some "perfect" endlinks go for it!  The first post is a nice example of someone doing their own thing.  (But there's no such thing as perfect, there are always trade offs be is noise, cost, lifespan, or something else.)

<unlocked. -mod>

[Vancouver98STi]

If you want to not listen to why we haven't felt it worth the time/effort/cost (because there's "good enough" and easy off the shelf options for endlinks), go for it.

This is a forum, a place for different views and ideas to be exchanged. It isn't a matter of me not wanting to listen... it's me wanting to have an open and friendly discussion. I'm hoping that this isn't too much to expect from this or any other Subaru forum on the 'net.

After I had posted here about the possibility of using endlinks from a different application, I was pleased to discover at another forum that four years earlier, someone else had exactly the same idea and had posted about it Here. I was eagerly anticipating being able to find out from this person how he made out. However, I was soon disappointed to discover when I sent the fella a PM that no one at that forum seemed to take any interest in his suggestion. At least I got some responses!

Anyway, thanks for re-opening the thread.

[RedndWhite]

Tuna, I'm not sure if you ever found a place to get your Heim joints from, but here you go:
http://www.fkrodends.com/

[Canuckrz]

GNP looks to be developing hybrid poly heimjoint options.

https://m.facebook.com/GreatNorthPerformance/photos/a.816336705056554.1073741829.542990842391143/1394846327205586/?type=3&source=48

[Vancouver98STi]

GNP looks to be developing hybrid poly heimjoint options.

Nice! Great to see another option becoming available.

[the_saint]

uh...  they clunk.

After a couple years any unshielded sphericals used like that are going to clunk.

Ditto 100%

Have similar endlinks/spherical joins on my FD and they start to clunk as they wear.  With rubber shields they last a lot longer.  My most recent set have been going for years, but I put less than a few thousand KM / year on the car so definitely not a daily driver.

[GrantC]

Since McMaster Carr insists all Canadians are terrorists I couldn't find a place to DIY some endlinks together.

So: http://www.importmuscle.com/s2000-sway-bar-end-links

http://www.westernsubaruclub.com/smf/index.php?topic=17093.msg435204#msg435204

Update:

McMaster Carr _might_ now ship to Canadians!  seatsafetyswitch will update us all in a week or so.

[Mr Crowley]

We order stuff from McMaster Carr all the time at work. Is this a consumer account limitation?

[seat safety switch]

We order stuff from McMaster Carr all the time at work. Is this a consumer account limitation?

Maybe. They wouldn't accept new company accounts from Canada a few years ago because terrorisms. Perhaps your account has been with them long enough to dodge that nervousness.

I did in fact just receive a bunch of stuff from McMaster-Carr, so it's open season, boys. It's shipped Purolator so do the needful.