Author Topic: Stage 2 Questions  (Read 2987 times)

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Offline greener

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Stage 2 Questions
« on: May 14, 2017, 07:29:43 pm »
I know there are already a lot of Stage 2 threads, but I still have a few questions I was hoping people could help me out on.

After having my 2013 wrx for four years now Im wanting to increase the power a bit. It's my daily driver and I wont be going crazy on mods after this (likely) so reliability and dependability are still important to me. I currently have the Invidia Q300 exhaust and am currently planning on getting the catted Invidia downpipe to make a nice clean connection. My first question is that will the downpipe significantly increase my exhaust noise?

I plan on getting a pro-tune rather than an OTS map. Are there any other mods that I should consider at this time to help with the reliability? ie is it a good idea for EBCS or is it not necessary? Or is this more of a conversation to have with the tuner? Im pretty big noob so hopefully this isnt too stupid of a question  :P

Lastly do I need to inform my insurance company of these performance mods? If so has it significantly affected anyones insurance? Im currently with Meloche Monnex.

Thanks for your help everyone!

Offline Ambystom01

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Re: Stage 2 Questions
« Reply #1 on: May 14, 2017, 07:44:33 pm »
Yes a downpipe will increase noise. If you go catted though, I think it's pretty negligible.

Talk to your tuner to see what else he recommends.

Technically yes you should tell your insurer but most people don't and most people don't have issues.
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Offline coop3422

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Re: Stage 2 Questions
« Reply #2 on: May 15, 2017, 10:05:15 am »
From the reading I've done previously, a couple things I was going to do for reliability were a Killer B oil pickup tube, an oil catch can (I've read some people use two), those are the 2 that come to the top of mind. Depending on your mileage, the timing belt service while you're in there, plugs wires, etc.

Offline jellynuts

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Re: Stage 2 Questions
« Reply #3 on: May 15, 2017, 10:12:30 am »
Factor in your budget.  A pro-tune is by no means cheap, so ideally, you want to do it once.  If you decide after the fact that you want to add something, you'll need to tune again. 

So, after reading and researching, if a boost controller is something you think you'll want, you might as well get it now if you can afford it.  It might help with the tuning and will allow for quicker boost, but Sunny is experienced enough to tune without it (if you're going to him) 

Regardless, talk to your tuner. 

From the reading I've done previously, a couple things I was going to do for reliability were a Killer B oil pickup tube, an oil catch can (I've read some people use two), those are the 2 that come to the top of mind. Depending on your mileage, the timing belt service while you're in there, plugs wires, etc.

Neither of these need to be done before the tune.  As for an oil catch can/AOS, I've been spooked with how AOS' don't work for us in the winter, regardless of newer designs.  Personally, I'd rather have oil in the intake than no oil. 
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Offline coop3422

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Re: Stage 2 Questions
« Reply #4 on: May 15, 2017, 04:37:33 pm »
Neither of these need to be done before the tune.  As for an oil catch can/AOS, I've been spooked with how AOS' don't work for us in the winter, regardless of newer designs.  Personally, I'd rather have oil in the intake than no oil.

True, I just meant if you're already in there, might as well do it all at once. Didn't know catch cans weren't ideal in winter.

Offline greener

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Re: Stage 2 Questions
« Reply #5 on: May 15, 2017, 04:46:21 pm »
Thanks for the replies everyone.

Factor in your budget.  A pro-tune is by no means cheap, so ideally, you want to do it once.  If you decide after the fact that you want to add something, you'll need to tune again. 

^ this is exactly why I wanted to ask the second question haha. I'd rather get it all over once than keep going back. Ill be going to Sunny for the tune so I will consult him!

Offline Ambystom01

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Re: Stage 2 Questions
« Reply #6 on: May 15, 2017, 05:20:14 pm »
In that case, you should decide now whether you want a turbo upgrade, headers, intake, etc.
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Offline jellynuts

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Re: Stage 2 Questions
« Reply #7 on: May 15, 2017, 10:24:29 pm »
Didn't know catch cans weren't ideal in winter.

I don't know about oil catch cans, but AOS on the other hand...

http://www.subaruforester.org/vbulletin/f87/grimmspeed-aos-condensation-issue-280145/
https://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showpost.php?p=40816479&postcount=383
https://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1864620
http://www.westernsubaruclub.com/smf/index.php?topic=38962.msg488990#msg488990

There were a few more on WSC with issues particularly with GS frothing, but I don't remember who or where to find it. 

And then you have others where there's no problem.  Either way, the issue stems from internet hysteria where chumps like us freak out and consume.  Classic fear tactic to purchase (Not the case with an oil pickup tube though haha, that problem is legit). 

In that case, you should decide now whether you want a turbo upgrade, headers, intake, etc.

Fuel pump, injectors, meth, intercooler... 

But honestly, contact Sunny.  He would have the best advice for where you are in the game. 

Good luck!  Give us an update when you're done!  (or during the process!)
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Offline Ambystom01

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Re: Stage 2 Questions
« Reply #8 on: May 16, 2017, 07:55:14 am »
The bump from stock to stage 2 is great. I would do that, and them consider whether you want more, understanding that there is a decrease in return the more you mod (more money is needed  for each additional hp).
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Offline coop3422

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Re: Stage 2 Questions
« Reply #9 on: May 16, 2017, 09:15:00 am »
The bump from stock to stage 2 is great. I would do that, and them consider whether you want more, understanding that there is a decrease in return the more you mod (more money is needed  for each additional hp).

I know this question has a lot of variable, but in general, if a stock car is maintained compared to a stage 2, with a custom tune from Sunny perhaps, what is the difference in reliability? This isn't directed at just you, I'm genuinely curious.

Offline Ambystom01

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Re: Stage 2 Questions
« Reply #10 on: May 16, 2017, 09:18:14 am »
I don't think anyone has reliably (heh) tested that. Too many variables to control.
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Offline jellynuts

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Re: Stage 2 Questions
« Reply #11 on: May 16, 2017, 10:08:34 am »
Generally speaking, a downpipe and tune is how the car should have come from factory.  Catted or not, the mouth of the OEM DP is a major restriction.  I want to say it's reliable, but Amby's right.  Too many factors. 

Buuut, haven't heard of too many Stage 2 cars blowing up. 

But we sure hear a lot about Subarus blowing up. 
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Offline Unholysavage

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Re: Stage 2 Questions
« Reply #12 on: May 16, 2017, 10:59:50 am »
bear in mind - going stage 1 or 2 gets rid of the brutally lean stock tune that Subaru put on every turbo EJ since 2007. that alone would likely prevent most of the ringland issues we hear about.
if everyone replaced their oil pickups with the killerB unit early on, as well as put a proper (safe) aftermarket tune on their cars, I'd wager that horror stories would be rare.

when it comes to catch cans/AOSs, I'm one of the people who has had issues with theirs in cold weather. I've had my car freeze up twice up with a Crawford V2 installed, both during extended highway commuting in ~-30c. the lower drain line (on cars with TMICs) is long, and nearly horizontal, so it doesn't drain quickly. the line runs close to the firewall, in the line of fire of the hood scoop, which strips heat from the line when it's super cold. condensed water can only slowly drain at the best of times, allowing it progressively cool, freeze and sometimes plug, pulling oil through the intake and creating an epic James Bond smokescreen. good times.
I never had issues in stop and go city driving in >-25c. lower speeds and idling at lights likely helps thaw that line, and taking corners would likely help clear that drain line.

most people here don't have issues, but Calgary doesn't see much of a winter compared to the rest of the prairies. my car doesn't see winter anymore, so I left my Crawford AOS on. having checked numerous times, it does a fantastic job of keeping oil out of the intake/TMIC, which helps reduce detonation. if I had to do it all again I'd probably buy another one, but would revert back to stock for winter.
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Offline greener

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Re: Stage 2 Questions
« Reply #13 on: May 16, 2017, 09:53:57 pm »
But honestly, contact Sunny.  He would have the best advice for where you are in the game. 

Good luck!  Give us an update when you're done!  (or during the process!)

Apparently he's out of town until next week so Ill talk with him then.

Definitely going to look into the oil pick up for my next oil change, I was unaware this was a common issue. Too bad I just changed my oil 2 weeks ago haha.

I genuinely appreciate everyones input! Ill definitely keep y'all posted on how thing turn out!

Offline Rad_Racer

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Re: Stage 2 Questions
« Reply #14 on: May 25, 2017, 01:18:34 pm »
I'm going to counter the earlier comment that the catted downpipe has a negligible impact on noise. I had a Nameless catback on my STI and all was well. Then I added a downpipe (catted). Drove it for 2 days before I threw my stock mufflers on. Could not stand how loud it was. I felt like I couldn't get on the throttle without attracting WAY too much attention. It sounded nice, but WAY too loud.

Offline jellynuts

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Re: Stage 2 Questions
« Reply #15 on: May 25, 2017, 01:38:53 pm »
Yes a downpipe will increase noise. If you go catted though, I think it's pretty negligible.

I'm going to counter the earlier comment that the catted downpipe has a negligible impact on noise. I had a Nameless catback on my STI and all was well. Then I added a downpipe (catted). Drove it for 2 days before I threw my stock mufflers on. Could not stand how loud it was. I felt like I couldn't get on the throttle without attracting WAY too much attention. It sounded nice, but WAY too loud.

This is in context to the OP's current catback though.  The Q300's twinloop design is pretty good at keeping the noise down.   



Considering that Nameless has no muffler and the Q300 does, I don't think the DP will have as significant of an increase in volume as you experienced.
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Offline Jay89

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Re: Stage 2 Questions
« Reply #16 on: May 25, 2017, 05:38:29 pm »
This is in context to the OP's current catback though.  The Q300's twinloop design is pretty good at keeping the noise down.   



Considering that Nameless has no muffler and the Q300 does, I don't think the DP will have as significant of an increase in volume as you experienced.

It did not increase all that much when I had installed mine. It definitely did increase, however, it was more like a leak in the exhaust rather than a hole type of increase

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Offline greener

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Re: Stage 2 Questions
« Reply #17 on: May 25, 2017, 10:16:58 pm »
My concern about noise was more about the fact that when cold starting in my garage my current setup rumbles my townhouse building and Im sure my neighbours wouldnt appreciate a significant noise increase. If its a lot louder at WOT I dont really care as much.

That being said I've ordered the catted DP and am booked in for a tune in early July  ;D

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Re: Stage 2 Questions
« Reply #18 on: May 25, 2017, 10:18:37 pm »
I wonder if Sunny could tune out the high rev on cold starts?
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Offline greener

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Re: Stage 2 Questions
« Reply #19 on: May 25, 2017, 10:24:49 pm »
I wonder if Sunny could tune out the high rev on cold starts?

Interesting idea. I think it should be fine though, they've never actually complained and its been a year haha. I just take care not to idle in there too long if I leave really early in the morning

Offline Rad_Racer

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Re: Stage 2 Questions
« Reply #20 on: May 26, 2017, 10:04:09 am »
This is in context to the OP's current catback though.  The Q300's twinloop design is pretty good at keeping the noise down.   

Considering that Nameless has no muffler and the Q300 does, I don't think the DP will have as significant of an increase in volume as you experienced.

To be fair, I have no experience with the Q300. However, I should clarify that my nameless catback did have mufflers, and in fact I got the biggest ones they would offer haha.