Topic: What is wrong with gc8s? Are they truly unreliable moneysinks?

[Reid183]

Alright, so as some of you may know, I have been looking for an impreza or legacy for quite some time now and a recent sale from an old high school friend has come up. The car is a relatively stock '97 sti. My question is what is the problem that everyone seems to have with gc8s? I have had multiple people to tell me to avoid gc8s like the plague and that they are nothing but a moneysink that I would want to get rid of. Are they really that bad? I am a big fan of gc8s styling and have driven my other friends ver 6 and can definatly say im a fan of the engine/drivetrain and wouldn't mind having one but it would be my new daily so I kind of want to know if these friends of mine are just talking out their assay or if gc8 sti's really are "terrible money sinks that aren't daily-able".

Thanks, Reid

[kijho]

I'll try to answer this as short as possible.  I owned my V2 '95 STI GC8 for 2 years and a few months. I bought it straight out of highschool and I knew nothing about mechanics/ engines/ cars - but I had a tremendous interest in them. Also like you, I was a huuuuge fan of them, and when my best friend bought one through an importer I realized the dream was easily a reality so I set my eyes on one shortly after.

They're awesome cars. They're RAW - Powerful - Loud. You'll blast through snow with the biggest uckfaying grin on your face. Everyone you know will think it's cool to drive in it (and people will always go to the wrong side first.)

However; When you're turning left at an intersection and someone across from you is also waiting to turn left - You can't see itshay. You can't see past that car because you're on the right side of the car. You just can't see without pulling far enough forward you'd be hit if someone was coming. So, you pretty much wait until you can see 100% or the light goes yellow..

You can't go through drive-thru's for Timmies. You can't go through the bank drive-thru either for money (this might not be a problem, see the next point).

They're an 15+ year old engine. It's an easy engine to work on, easy to learn things, there's a million resources online to learn things. Parts are somewhat tricky to find. You'll find tons of used parts and you'll buy them hoping they'll fix problems. You'll probably replace MAF (air sensors), sparkplugs, coilpacks, gaskets, seals, (valve cover gasket), fuel sensor, fuel pump, IACV, Camshaft sensor, etc.  (I replaced pretty much all of these in my 2 years ownership). Price? I mean, I was making minimum wage at the time I owned that car. So you're constantly putting some money into things to keep it running well.

IMG_2423 by Spencer, on Flickr

[LilDrunkenSmurf]

I think kijho nailed it.

Lots of pros, lots of cons, it really depends on your tolerance. I feel like at this point, it'd be better to get a freshly imported one, as a ton of cheaper ones here have been bagged on like sunfires, but if you can find a solid one that's been well maintained/restored locally, I'd say jump on it.

[WAGOWN]

Turning is easy. It's easy to position yourself in the lane, and lean over a bit to get in the same persoective as a regular LHD. It's literally only 3' to the right. It's weird at first and there's a bit of a trick to it but I have zero issues turning. Compared to vehicles ahead I'm usually at a BETTER vantage point.

Drivethru in reverse, I've done it - just remember to turn lights off

[Dylan780]

Ugh..people who go through the drive thru in reverse drive me crazy, just looking to add attention to the fact that they have a RHD car. Just reach over and pay/grab your food. I drove RHD for 5 or so years and never had a problem going through a drive thru like a regular person.

As for the GC8 or any car for that matter, there is always a risk when buying used.

I drove my GC8 for 2 years and the only issue I ever had was the MAF sensor and fuel pump, both of which are very easy and quite cheap to replace. The MAF did end up being a bit of a struggle to find though. There could be a lot more problems or there could be no problems, that's just kind of the luck of the draw. I would recommend importing one through JDM Connection or B Pro etc. that way you know that some dumb 17 year old kid in high school didn't drive the living isspay out of it without doing any sort of maintenance.

It is definitely a drivers car. It is loud, the interior rattles like crazy, certain parts can be hard to obtain BUT it is an incredibly fun car to drive and you feel very connected to it. I still regret selling mine and would love to import another one some day.

If you want, both me and Kijho have quite long build threads of our GC8's that you could take a look at.

http://www.westernsubaruclub.com/smf/index.php?topic=41955.0

http://www.westernsubaruclub.com/smf/index.php?topic=28678.msg364351#msg364351

[Ambystom01]

It's an older car, and a Subaru at that. It comes with the usual issues you'd expect of a 15+ year old car with the added element of it being a 15+ year old turbo Subaru. I'm not saying Subarus aren't reliable, just that you have to get used to and expect the quirks that come with their engine.

As a project car, I think they're perfectly fine. The older Subarus also look really good.

However, if you want a reliable and simple daily, I think you should get something newer and LHD.

[94impreza]

I've had my gf8 for over 3 years now.. Have had multiple cars before from Nissans and Evos to new BMWs. It's hands down the best daily I've ever had - cheap, fast, and reliable. Mine has the ej20g and it's been good to me so far.. Obviously it's a car thats 23 years old so things do wear out but it really isn't that bad. The only real failure I've had was the fuel pump but that's ridiculously easy to replace.. come to think of it, pretty much everything on these cars is quite easy to repair/replace.

If you can find one with lower mileage and maintenance history you should be good to go. Then keep up with maintenance and don't beat the itshay out of it every day. Don't be an idiot and crank the boost up without a proper tune either.

[darthekai]

Lots of people daily them. If you dont uckfay AROUND with the engine and pay attention to it, its not going to explode. Seems like most people who import them, receive them, crank the boost up to 11, try to do a burnout in a tim hortons parking lot, and then wonder why theres a rod sticking out the side of the block after 5000km of knocking.. Yeah if youre gonna do that, its gonna be unreliable. Get a horribly detuned american made engine and do it with that instead *cough* LS *cough*.

A less extreme example is the check engine light is on. "oh its just evap crap" they say. meanwhile the MAF is going and this idiot does nothing.


Theres some really extreme opinions about RHD dailies here on this forum. Some people like em, some people dont. Lots of people successfully daily drive RHD cars.
If its been well maintained (and timing belt has been properly serviced) and you trust that this friend hasnt been uckfaying around with boost, injectors, cone filters, piggybacks, etc, theres no reason the thing wont last to 300k.

[Reid183]

Thanks for all the replys guys. Yeah im really not at all woried about the fact that it is rhd as i have had no trouble with driving other rhd cars in the past and it really isnt that hard for me as some people make it out to be. That was not my concern at all, I was just wondering purely about the mechanical reliabilty etc. I think this car could be quite viable, the guy has had the car for id say probably 4 months now and kept it pretty much stock with nothing really mechanical at all done that I instantly stay away from when I see on any car generally (stupidly cranking up the boost, leaning out without a tune with an aem air filter, untuned turbo back etc.). He didnt drive it often or from what i could see ever hard as it was not his daily, odly enough he dailys a kouki s14 and pretty much takes the sti out the odd day or when it snows/ rains.

As for pricing I just dont want something that will be off the street every week and is mechanically dailyable. I dont mind paying for the odd part here and there assay-well as just general old car maitenence as I do work 2 decent paying jobs at the moment.

I treat my cars pretty well, call me what you like but I dont like to launch, bang off the limiter, or try to do burnouts or anything  like that for the sake of the car im driving and I would do the same to the sti if i did end up purchasing a gc8. As i said im quite a fan of keeping cars stock unless it is done 100% right. Im going to go over to his house to check it out on tuesday when i get back in town so ill keeps you guys updated let you know how that goes and let you know all the info i find out. I didnt bother asking too many questions over text since we live about 3 minutes away and it really isnt a problem at all for me to just pop by to have a quick glance at it and ask as many questions as i want in person.

[Reid183]

If the car turns out to not be what i think it is or has some problems i was not aware of i think i definatly am going to look into importing because im kind of getting fed up with the lack of quantity/ quality of cars here in Victoria and it would be nice to get an umolested not ragged on car.

[reet]

I would strongly disagree with anyone that told you to avoid a GC8 due to reliability. I am still driving a 1993 GC8 WRX that has not needed anything more than the maintenance that a 15-20 year old car needs. I would say it's an incredibly reliable car, and a dream to drive in any weather. Parts are relatively inexpensive too. Price to performance is very high on the RHD Subaru, when I bought my car I searched for a LHD vehicle of similar price and found rust buckets and 300,000km+ cars, so I think the price to performance of RHD Subaru's is very high if you look at it that way.

As a daily driver just keep in mind that if something does break down, most shops won't be able to find parts since the JDM won't be listed in the parts catalogs, so expect to do some searching and find your own parts. They're not incredibly hard to find if you look, plenty of resources out there. I have always purchased parts myself and delivered to the shop for installation.

[VTAKLOL]

^pretty much exactly what reet said.
I've had my '95 for 6 years now, rolled over 250k a few weeks ago (140k from me) and it's been great to me (aside from the one time I let another shop touch it, but that's a story for another thread on its own lol.)

[jellynuts]

They're not incredibly hard to find if you look, plenty of resources written off GC8's out there.

I have no hard data to back up my statement, but they seem to get crashed more than the average car. Perhaps because of the age demographic that is drawn to them, or maybe more of their owners don't respect the car or the road.

Edit

That said, I can think of one guy who adored his GC8 and had a great build thread to boot, but still ended up crashing it on the highway. Just unlucky.

[Jay89]

I think the main point most people out there keep forgetting is that these cars are a few years shy of 20. There's going to be some maintenance required.

I'm not a fan of jdm imports for my own reasons, but that doesn't mean I'll stop anyone from buying one. I wouldn't call them unreliable, just worn. Replace worn bits and it'll probably run ridiculously well

[Ambystom01]

I think the main point most people out there keep forgetting is that these cars are a few years shy of 20. There's going to be some maintenance required.

I'm not a fan of jdm imports for my own reasons, but that doesn't mean I'll stop anyone from buying one. I wouldn't call them unreliable, just worn. Replace worn bits and it'll probably run ridiculously well

Agreed. Any 20 year old is going to have issues, even if they're minor. All those rubber gasket and hoses have 20 years on them.

[Markkenko]

I owned 2 GC's. One for 4 months (and then someone crashed into my father whilst he was driving it), and one for about 2.5 years (just recently sold due to putting the money elsewhere).

I personally had next to no reliability issues with either. My second one I took too and from Banff/Lake Louise, interior BC, and Vancouver numerous times without any issues. I even drove it to Huntington Beach, CA and back without a single problem.

That being said, I was meticulous about everything. I learned how to do as much as I possibly could on both cars, and I think if you have the same mindset, you will enjoy a GC thoroughly.

One thing to note is that I find 20k's to be more notorious for blowing up vs. 20g's and 207's. I don't have much to back up my standpoint unless I really want to dig, but i've told myself to stay away from them all together. Take this with a grain of salt, and just make sure to check any car's engine thoroughly before you buy it.

Long story short, I definitely recommend it. Just check everything out before you buy.

[RedBimmer93]

I have never owned a JDM gc8, but I love the GC/GF chassis. The chassis is very light as far as subarus go, and with the power the turbocharged JDM drive trains provide, the car is a rocketship.

That's all I have to add

[HiTempguy]

One thing to note is that I find 20k's to be more notorious for blowing up vs. 20g's and 207's. I don't have much to back up my standpoint unless I really want to dig, but i've told myself to stay away from them all together. Take this with a grain of salt, and just make sure to check any car's engine thoroughly before you buy it.

This is VERY important. The EJ20K (sometimes referred to as a EJ207K) is known for blowing up... like, a lot. I've seen EJ20G's in cars up to 1996, but after that they are typically 20k's, which a 1997 certainly would be. The reasoning behind it is very internet myth, but at the end of the day, I feel its pretty safe to assume an aggressive tune (probably lots of ignition timing).

Another point to consider is that last time I looked (easily a year ago), there was still no cheap tuning solution like Rob's "Tune" for the EJ20k. So in order to do anything about the 20k tune situation, you may have to look into a standalone, which isn't awful, but still looking at $1500 + tune for a PnP vipec or link.

Unless you are getting something special (2 door, or dccd car, or type ra), I'd stick with finding a 1993-1995.

Other than that though, GC8 (both usdm and jdm) are amazing cars. Very reliable, easy to work on, and fun to drive year round. I still miss my 2.5rs.

[Vancouver98STi]

Another point to consider is that last time I looked (easily a year ago), there was still no cheap tuning solution like Rob's "Tune" for the EJ20k.

I've been in touch with Rob. As can be seen/read HERE, Rob is still hoping to come up with a tune for the EJ20K. I encourage anyone with an EJ20K to contact Rob to express your interest in a RobTune for this engine!

[SingallZ]

Welcome to the world of tomorrow!

Reviving this 4 month old thread reminds me of my old GC8 Type R. I'd buy it back if the new owner had not wrapped it around a tree...

[jellynuts]

Welcome to the world of tomorrow!

Reviving this 4 month old thread reminds me of my old GC8 Type R. I'd buy it back if the new owner had not wrapped it around a tree...

Darn, that was a beautiful car

[RawRock]

Moneysinks? Mine wasn't. I got my 96 STi (ej20g) with just over 100,000k on it - and in 5 years put over 100,000 kilometres on it before selling it. No major issues. I put in a new rad, changed the timing belt, had the clutch done. Those were the only real expenses - and ones that one can expect as a car ages. Oil and coolant were checked religiously, and boost (with a Rob tune) was kept at 15-16 psi. I miss that car and I would've expected it to keep on ticking for a loooong time before it wore out. It did have a slow oil leak from the valve covers, and a couple of other 20-year-old car quirks, but I would trust it on any trip, and frequently made 6-hour trips in it to work up north.

[bigtimegambler]

Nothing wrong with buying a GC with an EJ20K engine. The reason why you hear they blow up more often is because they have the most aggressive tune (timing), and with poor gas it can cause detonation. Just run 94 octane only, and you'd be just fine.

I have owned my Version V STI for just under two years. Just maintenance things, nothing out of the ordinary. However, all the maintenance items add up quick, and it gets expensive.

Fuel cost for this car is extremely expensive. Around 50 litres to fill at a cost of 1.30 a litre (94 octane) is $65 dollars. You can only go 350-450 Km on that...

If you make decent money go for it. If you are making closer to minimum wage, don't.

If you have a tighter budget, lots of fun N/A sports cars out there.

- BTG

[Reid183]

If you make decent money go for it. If you are making closer to minimum wage, don't.

If you have a tighter budget, lots of fun N/A sports cars out there.

Yeah, I ended up going for an imported GDA wrx over a GC8 sti but the same can be said about this car for fuel... At Victoria's current price of 1.49/L for 94 it's about $75 a tank (usually go through a tank a week) which is a solid 15% of my paycheck at the moment but driving it every day sure makes up for the cost.