Author Topic: 72 Käfer (Beetle) build (Read 10040 times)

LilDrunkenSmurf · « **Reply #75 on:** September 03, 2019, 09:20:43 am »

I need to channel your resourcefulness for my project, holy.

SingallZ · « **Reply #76 on:** September 16, 2019, 01:27:05 pm »

First long drive I've had in the little car (100km), went on a cruise with CCVA (Calgary Classic Volkswagen Association), it held up, no dripping, burning, or fires (well at least not with my car). I'm running out of things to muck about with on this car:

Zac · « **Reply #77 on:** September 16, 2019, 02:42:07 pm »

Where did you get those bulbs?

SingallZ · « **Reply #78 on:** September 16, 2019, 02:53:02 pm »

Ebay

https://www.ebay.ca/itm/LED-light-bulb-cold-white-6000K-6V-12V-R2-P45t-Beetle-Citroen-2CV-Triumph-Bug/162433802449?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649

Pretty cheap but took forever to get to Canada

Zac · « **Reply #79 on:** September 16, 2019, 04:33:38 pm »

And your beetle is 12v correct?

SingallZ · « **Reply #80 on:** September 16, 2019, 05:00:52 pm »

Yup mines a 1972 and anything post 1967+ is 12v (if I remember correctly). But who knows, VW was terrible for parts binning cars. As an example supposedly everything 1968+ was is an Independent rear suspension but my car came stock with an older Swing-Axle.

LilDrunkenSmurf · « **Reply #81 on:** September 16, 2019, 06:25:47 pm »

I've spotted that mint green beetle like 3x in the last week, and not once was I in the mini when I did it, and it makes me sad.

SingallZ · « **Reply #82 on:** January 21, 2020, 02:41:36 pm »

-30C temps have me fixing itshay. Pretty crappy oil leak turned out to be a leaky rear main seal. I followed the shop manual on seal depth but its all performance parts with weird requirements (I'll set the new one deeper next time). Also while the engines out and I'm fixing itshay I'll add more power...

Leaky rear main seal

Pretty fly artwork

because you can never have enough power, I'm going to 2.1L with lightweight forged pistons

Still working on getting them all balanced

New wiring and EFI coming (also need to fix this itshay), every time I put on the headlights or indicators not good things happen

kijho · « **Reply #83 on:** January 21, 2020, 03:15:16 pm »

Quote from: SingallZ on January 21, 2020, 02:41:36 pm

every time I put on the headlights or indicators not good things happen

This gave me a good laugh

I love what's going on here though, keep at it. It's awesome!!

Zac · « **Reply #84 on:** January 21, 2020, 07:46:56 pm »

Want to buy my Thing? It will fix all your problems

SingallZ · « **Reply #85 on:** March 07, 2020, 11:15:18 pm »

Should make for better low end torque, top end power, throttle response, and engine protection. I've hoarded together enough for a full conversion with sequential injection and spark, proper ITBs, LS2 coils, o2 sensors, MAP, ATS, Head temp sensor, TPS, Knock sensor, Fuel Pressure sensor, Oil Pressure sensor, Voltage sensor, Crank position sensor, Cam position sensor, and IACV (for the cold starts). Eventually I'll switch to a better ECU (i.e. Haltech or AEM) but they're ridiculously expensive

Also to quell my paranoia I'm going to a thicker walled cylinder barrels

When I took the old pistons out I noticed this, so I split the block, only one lifter was destroyed, so either bad lifter or bad break-in

Now that I split the block I have an excuse to upgrade the springs to beehive's (similar to modern valve trains) and should be good to 7000RPMs (LEFT Beehive single spring RIGHT old dual spring)

And go to a much, much, much lighter lifter

SingallZ · « **Reply #86 on:** March 08, 2020, 09:59:17 pm »

Tons of updates for the next few weeks, starting with the heads. Messed up a valve seat due to that cam wipe (see previous post). The cost to replace and reseat the valve was just under the cost of just getting new heads so I upgraded a little.

New slightly more expensive but totally worth it heads

OLD ittshay CHEAP assay HEAD, I can't believe I ran these, almost no air was getting through them, and the casting look like itshay. (you get what you pay for)

Also since I'm running a larger barrel I needed a slightly wider head (92 vs 94), the repair plus the fly cut was expensive and the head was ported via a CNC vs by hand on the other.

New valves vs old, the single groove are the new ones and will secure the keepers a little better

Going to beehive single springs, they're a little more progressive on their spring rate with a little less friction and binding

With older engines and new springs Its always wise to check your spring installed height . Didn't do this last time and was probably floating a little, the silver thing is a tool that measures the spring seat to valve retainer height

Adding a shim to get it within spec (1.70"), this will also save the spring seat with wear over time (hard metal spring vs aluminum meh, spring vs hard metal shim yay)

Next up clean out the valve guides. Used a gun barrel cleaner, I don't own a gun so this was a fun filled trip to a store trying to explain what I needed

With any new set of valves I've always lapped them in, just in case something was damaged and to ensure proper startup

Little wider band then I'd like, but still a good seal (out of the box LEFT, lapped RIGHT)

Also these heads have a provision for a head temp sensor on them so drilled out the post, tapped it, and added the sensor

Finished product vs out of the box

So much more to come

jellynuts · « **Reply #87 on:** March 09, 2020, 10:07:28 am »

Quote from: SingallZ on March 08, 2020, 09:59:17 pm

Next up clean out the valve guides. Used a gun barrel cleaner, I don't own a gun so this was a fun filled trip to a store trying to explain what I needed

Would they not sell it to you because you don't have a gun license? Amazing posts. Everything is way over my head, but the pictures are pretty!

seat safety switch · « **Reply #88 on:** March 09, 2020, 10:14:36 am »

I have a trombone cleaner lying around from when I had my Miata, but I assume a gun cleaning brush is copper or something.

Dr Beans · « **Reply #89 on:** March 09, 2020, 10:31:13 am »

It looks like the porting decreased the compression ratio a bit? I'm assuming the increased flow will more than make up for it?

Awesome progress!

SingallZ · « **Reply #90 on:** March 09, 2020, 11:08:42 am »

Quote from: Dr Beans on March 09, 2020, 10:31:13 am

It looks like the porting decreased the compression ratio a bit? I'm assuming the increased flow will more than make up for it?

Awesome progress!

Yup good eye, I had the combustion chamber fly cut down to 58cc's total volume to get it back down. Hopefully be around 9:1 now (was 9.5:1 with the old heads). But these will flow better and cool better.

Quote from: jellynuts on March 09, 2020, 10:07:28 am

Would they not sell it to you because you don't have a gun license? Amazing posts. Everything is way over my head, but the pictures are pretty!

The sales guy only understood caliber and I only understand millimetres & how I was going to use it. It was an interesting conversation.

SingallZ · « **Reply #91 on:** March 27, 2020, 10:48:39 am »

Rebuild continues

Cam thrust setting:

Grinding down rings 0.014 and 0.016 for top and bottom compression rings

Test fitting and setting piston deck height/clearance

Sealing up the bottoms of the barrels (I use permatex copper for high heat considering where its going)

hmmm sooo satisfying

Half the block assembled

Test fitting new type 4 barrel cooling vs old type 1 (I can see why they made the change)
NEW TYPE 4

OLD TYPE 1 (total itshay)

Next up wiring:

Dr Beans · « **Reply #92 on:** March 27, 2020, 11:14:09 am »

A few things:

- Is that crank gear aftermarket? I like how it also serves as a degree wheel.
- Teflon nuts on the block - not worried about the heat?
- The cam looks like it has a thrust bearing built into it. If end to end play is not in spec do you need to get another custom cam? Or is their a bearing that I can't see in the picture.

As always, great work.

SingallZ · « **Reply #93 on:** March 27, 2020, 11:36:13 am »

Quote from: Dr Beans on March 27, 2020, 11:14:09 am

- Is that crank gear aftermarket? I like how it also serves as a degree wheel.
- Teflon nuts on the block - not worried about the heat?
- The cam looks like it has a thrust bearing built into it. If end to end play is not in spec do you need to get another custom cam? Or is their a bearing that I can't see in the picture.

1. Its stock'ish. Lightweight material, but made from a stock casting (from CBPerformance)

2. The block doesn't get hot (90C/200F tops) so they're fine, however the heads/barrels get WAY hotter (170C/350F+), so you don't put any plastic there. BUT you can also see I'm using non-teflon nuts next to the barrels for this very reason.

3. There is double thrust on the bearing, however its pretty generic (made thick to serve many different cams and blocks), so you need to wet sand it down with 2000 grit paper, it's a tedious and nerve racking process. I always buy 2 sets of bearings just in case I uckfay it up. Also if you don't do this correctly, it expands, flash welds to the cam, and then spins (0.004 thrust for high performance applications). This is one of the most common failure points when people build these motors, and its not widely covered in the shop manuals

uckfayed these up:

darthekai · « **Reply #94 on:** March 27, 2020, 12:12:37 pm »

Oof. Just found your thread. Gr8 car. gr8 engine. gr8 thread.

Quote from: SingallZ on May 19, 2018, 09:35:41 am

As a software engineer reading up on carbs is like medival folklore, so many old weird beard stories of “we ran these jets with this cam profile because that’s what worked for 20+ years on my butt dyno and everything else will just blow up your motor”. So I drank some Samba Koolaid and I’m re-jetting the carbs to match my compression ratio and cam to the best setup I can calculate based on the voodoo I’ve read. I’ll probably just throw a Air/Fuel gauge on it and redo all this after I’ve got the thing running. It’s still fun but I can see why the world has moved on.

Did you ever wind up watching AFR with the carbs? I did on the mustang and it ruined my life. I imagine with individual and more direct fuelling of the webers, the response is probably way better?

After learning how carbs work, I began to find it hard to believe engines work at allwithout EFI.

Also, plz post WOT video. Maybe a Luftwaffe flyby video as well?

SingallZ · « **Reply #95 on:** March 27, 2020, 12:21:06 pm »

Quote from: darthekai on March 27, 2020, 12:12:37 pm

Did you ever wind up watching AFR with the carbs? I did on the mustang and it ruined my life. I imagine with individual and more direct fuelling of the webers, the response is probably way better?

I did, it was all over the damn place in the RPM range, rich down low, ultra lean in the middle, okay on the top. I'd fix it, but it varied on engine temp, timing, if the carbs got dirty, if one got out of balance, if it was cold out, if it was hot out, if the fuel pump or pressure regulator were working properly, the carbs were hot, if you shut off the car and came back and the fuel boiled in the lines, if you were driving up-hill or down-hill, if you beat on it and drained the bowl...

It kicked my OCD into overtime and it's why I'm ditching the voodoo carbs for EFI

tperkins · « **Reply #96 on:** March 27, 2020, 02:21:46 pm »

very satisfying thread, great work!

Zac · « **Reply #97 on:** March 28, 2020, 02:18:14 pm »

Loving all this work, unfortunetly so is my gf.

I have been trying to convince her to let me do a Subaru conversion on the Thing but she doesnt want any holes cut for the rad.

SingallZ · « **Reply #98 on:** April 02, 2020, 11:31:33 am »

Complete long block assembled (yay), I can finally move on to fun stuff.

To get there I had to finish up cutting the push rods to length and setup valve train geometry

Cutting push rods, went to dual taper aluminum, and I cut them with a quality pipe cutter

Bashing the ends into the rods, you use old lifters as anvils (and a hammer):

finished end:

Finalizing lift at the valve, had to goto 1:1.1 ratio rockers to get lift to around 0.460" inch. If I went to my 1:1.25 ratio's it jumped to 0.540"inch lift at the valve (max is 0.515") which causes spring binding and requires new valves and springs:

Cleaning and assembling the new rockers, also getting the spacing of the rockers on the rods correct. You use shims between each rocker to get it within 0.005" - 0.007":

Nerdy valve train weights, this should be very quiet, less floaty, and revv'y

OLD:272.45 vs NEW:203.99 == 68.46 gram savings per valve (X 8 valves and total weight savings of 547.68g across the entire valve train)

Also just a shot of my work bench, spend a lot of time standing/sitting here:

Dr Beans · « **Reply #99 on:** April 02, 2020, 12:38:40 pm »

So the push rod runs through the tube (I'm assuming it acts as oil return) from the "block" where the cam is located (first picture) out to the head to the rocker arm. There seems to be a spring on the tube (again in the first picture) but that spring is on the outside of the tube... does this engine not have LMA's or any sort of antifloat spring? I can't see anything in the head or anything built into the rocker arm shaft. Also is there any sort of oil delivery to the top of the valve/rocker arm tappet?

Sorry, the only thing I know about these engines is from these pictures.