Author Topic: Star Wars is Dead  (Read 2524 times)

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Offline jellynuts

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Star Wars is Dead
« on: January 05, 2018, 09:40:51 pm »
I liked it, but some things didn't sit well with me.  Some of it were blatantly obvious, and others felt odd, and it wasn't until later reflection that I could pin what was wrong.  But first!  Let me say what I thought was good: 

1.  Absolutely stunning visual when Holdo kamakazi'd into Snope's ship.  In fact, and as it should since Star Wars set the standard, all the visuals were fantastic
2.  Some of Leia's lines were just bang on, like, "wipe that nervous expression off your face" and, "I changed my hair."  I love her.  I will miss her dearly
3.  Luke's still got that whiney tone that's stuck with him since he was going to Tosche Station to pick up some power converters
4.  The interactions between Luke and Leia were very meaningful.  The impact of this is even more since she has passed away
5.  I thought Luke's lessons were good
6.  Decapitations and torsopitation

Some things that I didn't like:

1. The Marvel humour.  Poe's being on hold with Hux was funny, but it felt out of place.  I don't know, maybe they were trying to go for the Detention Center conversation, but it felt more Disney/Marvel to me.



Those cute birds on the island.  Just no.  Chewie + Ewoks was a dumb idea.  This was too.  That Chewie warcry followed by cute bird war cry- Marvel.  Rose stunning Finn when she realizes he's trying to use an escape pod- Marvel.

2.  The Asians...  There's, too many of them! 



Maybe I'm more sensitive to this because I am Asian, but wow.  Asian girl sacrifices herself on the bomber?  Ooh, turns out her sister gets a supporting role?  Ooh, they had a strong bond and shared identical (gold looking) moon pendants?  Appealing to the Asian market there, Disney?  I don't buy it, but China might, so you win. 

3.  Not just Asians, but the diversity.  The white people to non-white people and male to female ratios has been cut down (but are there less aliens too?).  In some regards, I support this.  But it's also so blatant that it feels like a political statement.  I hate political statements.  Just give me Star Wars. 

4.  Vice Admiral Holdo.  Why her?  I feel like they wrote her in just to give another strong, self-sacrificing female in leadership role and to my above point, can we just leave the politics out?  It should have been Ackbar to make that sacrifice, but

5.  They blew up Ackbar.  They just wrote him off like he was nothing!  He was the only non-white person in leadership you morons! 

6.  Animal rights message at Canto.  Rose says, "now it's worth it".  Was it?  Was that message worth it really worth it, Disney?  Or was the entire Canto scene just a colossal waste of script!?  Please, no more politics.  No more SJW messages. 

7.  Supreme Leader Snope.  How did they reduce this guy



to this guy

  <--- Hugh Hefner

This falls under #10 worst reason for hating the movie, according to video LDS posted.  I don't think it's bad reason.  I still don't get who/what/when/where/why Snope is.  And for all the mystery and build up from Force Awakens, they just write him off too.  But how he dies, two thumbs up.  LDS' video brings up a good point where, the Emperor in Empire Strikes Back is also just introduced with no back story,

8.  Captain Phasma.  For all the marketing and hype that they invested into her, she really amounted to nothing.  My friend said it best, she had as much story impact as Davin Felth. 



9.  That scene at the end with the three stable boys.  Why are those boys still alive?  Child slaves have the least value in the economy of human trafficking.  And these three in particular were responsible for the loss an entire fortune of...  Horse things and the destruction of this wealthy James Bond/Monaco place.  They should have been thrown into the trash compactor.  But then, we wouldn't have that nice Pinocchio moment at the end, amirite? 

Finally, they're really passing the torch to a new generation of heroes.  Han's dead.  Leia's dead (IRL RIP QQ).  Luke's dead.  R2 can't even stand in the shadow of BB8.  This isn't something I dislike per se, I'm just not ready to let them all go yet. 

What were your thoughts?
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Offline tperkins

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi discussion thread - SPOILER ALERT
« Reply #1 on: January 05, 2018, 10:06:35 pm »
Didn't watch it, don't care about the franchise apart from the original movies.

There, I said it.

I liked this post though.
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Offline Markkenko

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi discussion thread - SPOILER ALERT
« Reply #2 on: January 05, 2018, 11:25:58 pm »
I thought it was a good movie overall. Some of the best things I've seen in a star wars movie, but also some of the worst. What was with Leia just floating back to the ship after being blasted out? Could they really have not thought of something better? I also agree largely with your political point. Just give me star wars. As far as the porg (is that what they're called) cute animal things... I read on reddit that they had those in the movie because they were just puffins on the island when they were filming. Instead of editing then all out, they just cgi-d them to be what they were. I didn't mind them. I also like ewoks. Im also not a massive follower of star wars, just casual, so what do I know
8.5/10 movie from me. It was entertaining, and I'm curious what will happen next.

Offline Canuckrz

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi discussion thread - SPOILER ALERT
« Reply #3 on: January 05, 2018, 11:52:11 pm »
Worst Star Wars film ever. And I'm including ALL of the prequels in that.

I agree with all of the above criticisms and here's a few more.

1.) What was the point in Vice Admiral Holdo not just telling Poe the plan, the entire stupid plot line of them going to the casino planet so they could harp on capitalism ONLY existed because she couldn't just say we're evacuating the large ships and going to this planet here. Even if she explained this later on before Poe pulled the mutiny it would have prevented that from happening. Theres just no point in it.

2.) While we're on the topic of Holdo, why does the ship not have some form of autopilot? What was the purpose of going down with the ship other than for her to have a heroic death. Additionally although the visuals of jumping to light speed through the ship was amazing, now that we know that was a viable option why the hell didn't they just do that to the deathstar, and planet deathstar or whatever unoriginal concept was in the movie before it.

3.) The amount of things put into the movie by Disney just to sell merchandise to kids, the stupid little birds, Brienne of Darth, the weird dog horse things, the different storm troopers that they've been pushing like the executioners.

4.) Rey has to translate chewbacca to Luke? what. Shes known Chewy for like a week at that point and Luke has known Chewy for decades. And just other dumb crap like this how shes suddenly amazing with a lightsaber after a week and she received no training on it at all from luke that was shown in the movie anyways. And moving all the individual rocks at once to clear the exit to the cave when she also had ZERO training.

5.) What was the point of Leia surviving especially in such a stupid way when that death would have been so satisfying in how they lead upto it with Kylo if they're just going to have to kill her off anyways except now in a much less satisfying way.

6.) Where the hell were the knights of Ren in all of this?

7.) What the hell was the point of the asian chick saving Finn? If he didn't destroy the laser battering ram thing they were all going to die, so she saves him so that he would stay alive for a couple more minutes at the expense of everyone else? what? This feels put in just to give her super bland forced character more depth but lacked absolutely any sense in regards to the situation surrounding it.

8.) There's a huge plot sequence about needing the code breaker to get through the shield of the ship. Yet at the very start of the movie that apparently wasn't an issue at all with the equally massive dreadnought.

I'm sure theres lots more I'm forgetting. The humor really really didn't fit in with the existing Star wars movies but thats already been said.

Offline RedndWhite

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi discussion thread - SPOILER ALERT
« Reply #4 on: January 06, 2018, 01:47:51 am »
Parts I didn't like
1) The humour wasn't that good. I mean, I laughed... but I don't think I should be laughing at a Star Wars movie. Like, rewatching the originals, and I giggled at R2 and Yoda. Whereas C3P0 is campier and an annoyance rather than laughing stock.

2) Phasma has all the things to be a devastating force for evil. Her armour reflects blasters, she's a sadistic ("a blaster bolt is too good for these two"), but uckfaying damn it, Disney. Follow through with the badassness! SHE COULD BE SO MUCH BETTER IF SHE KICKED SOME DAMN REBEL assay. Ugh, so much wasted talent with the actress they have playing her only to have Finn call her chromedome and uppercut her or throw her in a garbage can.

3) Holdo, what a garbage leader. I mean, yes. Poe was demoted, as he needed to be. But that suddenly doesn't mean he's not a valuable strategist and fit for the bottom of the barrel. Communicate with the arrogant flyboy, cause clearly not telling him worked wonders.

4) Finn could be good. He really could be. Like, let him leave. And then let him come back on his own accord. Don't let him get zapped, go on an utterly useless mission, and think he's now validated. He needs to leave on his own accord, and come back on it. It worked for Han, make it work here. That'd be a better way of showing he's not a runner. It'd have been good if he learned that war profiteering was from people selling to both sides on his own, and then realizing, "hey, i'm gonna stand with the rebels."

5) Echoing Jelly's sentiments about all of the politics.

The good things:
1) Kylo Ren was the best damn part of the movie. Holy itshay, Adam Driver knocked that out of the park. He and Daisy Ridley have some damn good acting chops, and I appreciate the chemistry between them. And you could feel the tension in Kylo. And how his lightsabre suits him. You kinda got that in Force Awakens, that he was angsty, trying to be intimidating, and broken inside. But then seeing Snoke tear him down, and then he hesitates on the trigger, but is also fulling willing to go kill some Imperial Guards.

2) The Imperial Guard fight scene. As a sucker for a good fight scene and unconventional tactics (think this ), seeing how Rey handled herself and then throwing the blade to Kylo. So good. Dang gump. And I'm finally glad the Red Guards did something other than standing around and looking ominous. Though, in some cases, it's like the magic has since been lost. Homer says it best here. "the little guy hasn't done anything yet, and you know it's gonna be good". Maybe thinking that it was going to be good was better than knowing they could be beat. However, still a great scene.

3) How they showed Luke and his depression and sealing himself off from the world. Depression friggin sucks, and seeing how that changed Luke. While Luke was whiney in the original trilogy, he had balls. He wasn't too phased in the face of danger going after the Death Star, hopped into the X-Wing to save Leia and Han, and then willingly gave himself up to Vader. And he tried to mentor new students, in something he had minimal formal training with. And then he uckfayed it up. Like, big time. And that ruined him. And seeing the aftermath and what he blames himself with, and how that mentally ruins him. And subsequentially seeing his attempt at trying to return to normal.
- Side note, all I could hear when Hamill was talking was The Joker, which worked. And then when he exclaimed, "R2!" that brought me right back into Empire Strikes Back and that hit me right in the feels.

4) Yoda. Frig, when he burns the tree, and his little legs stomping up and down. That's the humour I like in Star Wars. Yoda being a smart-assay.

5) The droids.
- R2 and *whir whir beep beep*, Luke "SACRED island." It's R2 saying "ittshay island", no matter what else you say :P And pulling up the message that started it all with Leia. That was another right in the feels moment.
- BB-8 reminds me of my old dog. "I'm so happy to be here and give me attention and all of you are awesome. BUT DON'T YOU DARE THREATEN MY HUMANS". As noted by the Hamill's screen capture character -- the little, drunk gremlin -- feeding coins into BB-8 and then shooting the guards. Or terrorizing the stormtroopers in the walker.  Only to be cemented when Poe and BB-8 see each other again.
- BH-8, reminds me of my old cat. "I caught this mouse. Give me treats. uckfay everyone".

6) The advancement of tech and that the world isn't just stagnant. The Imperials came up with hyperspace tracking, how the equipment has been improved upon from what's in the mining base (not talking about the skimmers). Yes, it's cause our IRL tech is better, but it helps show that there's development. It's a nice touch.

Will I watch it again? Yeah, but not in theatres. Maybe if it's on Netflix.

Jelly, the reason they blew up Ackbar off screen was that, tragically, Erik Bauersfeld had passed away in 2016. But they should have done better. Alas, they didn't, and it sucks.
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Offline Zac

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi discussion thread - SPOILER ALERT
« Reply #5 on: January 06, 2018, 10:16:30 am »
To answer the question on why they didnt jump to lightspeed through the death star and so on, Someone on reddit pointed out that the ship Holdo used was the biggest the rebels had and it only disabled snokes ship, I dont think it would have made a dent on the death star. You could make an argument that a properly placed fleet of x and y wings (Do A wings have the ability to jump to lightspeed?) Could have taken down the death star but who knows.

Killing off Captain Phasma was stupid, although maybe she survived who knows.

Kylo Ren is meh, yea hes powerful but not a very convincing villain to me, seems like a kid with a short temper to me.

Edit: Rey better have some sort of uckfaying Staff lightsaber in the next movie or some type of long sword style one, its obvious shes way more comfortable with that style and what shes used all her life on Jakku

Offline jellynuts

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi discussion thread - SPOILER ALERT
« Reply #6 on: January 07, 2018, 11:26:50 pm »
I read on reddit that they had those in the movie because they were just puffins on the island when they were filming. Instead of editing then all out, they just cgi-d them to be what they were. I didn't mind them. I also like ewoks.

Ah, makes sense I guess.  They should have left them on the island.  But you liked the Ewoks?  Eugh...  Return of the Jedi, while, great space battle, was just goofy.  Han was a fumbling buffoon instead of the cool, sly Han from before, Bobba Fett gets taken out like Wile E. Coyote, and Ewoks.  But, back to Last Jedi...

Worst Star Wars film ever. And I'm including ALL of the prequels in that.

lol, that's as bold, if not more-so than claiming that it was better than Empire.  I didn't think it was that bad, but like SSS, the more I think and discuss about it, the less I like it. 

I agree with your points.  That girl in LDS' video said one reason why Holdo didn't tell Finn on the plan was to keep it secure, in case it gets leaked, which it did, by Finn.  It's a decent point, but had she told him in the first place, he wouldn't have gone rogue.

As for the point of the Asian Chick?  I'm convinced it's a) diversity but more importantly b) to appeal to the Chinese market across seas. 

Parts I didn't like
1) The humour wasn't that good. I mean, I laughed... but I don't think I should be laughing at a Star Wars movie...

The good things:
1) Kylo Ren was the best damn part of the movie...

...Jelly, the reason they blew up Ackbar off screen was that, tragically, Erik Bauersfeld had passed away in 2016. But they should have done better. Alas, they didn't, and it sucks.

I think you can laugh!  Star Wars has humour, it's just different from Marvel and Disney humour, and I we got spillage into this film.  I agree with you on Kylo Ren!  I'm starting to warm up to him and found his struggle somewhat believable.  I don't like BB-8 that much...  :O  That part where he's trying to fix the short, and has all the ligaments but eventually smashes his head into the circuit- Marvel humour. 

Ah Ackbar.  RIP, I didn't know.  Still, he wouldn't even have needed to say anything.  He could have just given his blank Ackbar stare, which, I think Holdo did too, and then head back to the console and lightspeed away. 



To answer the question on why they didnt jump to lightspeed through the death star and so on, Someone on reddit pointed out that the ship Holdo used was the biggest the rebels had and it only disabled snokes ship, I dont think it would have made a dent on the death star. You could make an argument that a properly placed fleet of x and y wings (Do A wings have the ability to jump to lightspeed?) Could have taken down the death star but who knows.

I'm no physics guy.  Something something F=ma.  But, I can answer that yes, A-Wings have hyperdrive engines!  You can see them right at the start in formation with the Falcon:

uckfay, Johnny with the back-handed slap. You're clearly the Oracle.

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Offline Canuckrz

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi discussion thread - SPOILER ALERT
« Reply #7 on: January 07, 2018, 11:40:38 pm »
lol, that's as bold, if not more-so than claiming that it was better than Empire.

I disagree, if you get one of the edits that removes jarjar (which are fairly easy to find) the rest of the movies are fairly reasonable on their own; there is no single item that could be changed to fix this movie to that degree.

I agree with your points.  That girl in LDS' video said one reason why Holdo didn't tell Finn on the plan was to keep it secure, in case it gets leaked, which it did, by Finn.  It's a decent point, but had she told him in the first place, he wouldn't have gone rogue.
Possible, but a bit of a stretch especially with how/why it was portrayed in the movie where it looked like a power trip over his rank and twisting the knife on his uckfay up with the dreadnaught. If it was intended for that to be the case I'd say the way that scene was handled was a major screw up from the director, so you're replacing one problem with another.

Offline jellynuts

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi discussion thread - SPOILER ALERT
« Reply #8 on: January 07, 2018, 11:42:53 pm »
You can take out Jar Jar, but you can't take out sand:

uckfay, Johnny with the back-handed slap. You're clearly the Oracle.

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Offline Canuckrz

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi discussion thread - SPOILER ALERT
« Reply #9 on: January 07, 2018, 11:47:15 pm »
Anakin was... pretty cringey. But that was the point in some ways, hes 19 and grew up with a bunch of monks that happen to have laser swords and hes interacting with a chick for the first time. Even to that end I'd say Kylo in the first movie anyways was as bad in his own ways, I haven't seen that level of angst since my chemical romance.

Offline Player One

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi discussion thread - SPOILER ALERT
« Reply #10 on: January 08, 2018, 09:59:52 am »
Some thoughts (some are duplicates of what's been discussed)
1. Overall, I enjoyed the movie while watching it. After discussing with others, there was a lot that wasn't very good and now I feel worse about it.

2.
1.  Absolutely stunning visual when Holdo kamakazi'd into Snope's ship.  In fact, and as it should since Star Wars set the standard, all the visuals were fantastic
I agree with this 100%! It was an amazing scene.

3. I enjoyed the back and forth with Rey and Kylo and am glad that this exists:

Why were his pants so high?

4. Mark Hamill is a bad actor and I am glad Luke is no longer going to be a significant character.

5. They should have killed off Leia since Carrie Fisher is dead. Also, that almost-death scene was terrible.

6. All of the aliens felt like last minute additions and seemed like they were low budget - the porgs, the fish nuns, anyone gambling. Maybe they were trying to match the original ones but it's 2018, not 1977.

7. Rose falling in love with Fin was lame. I'm cool with there being more Asians and diversity but I didn't like this plot line.

8. I'm not convinced Rey isn't Luke's daughter. After he destroyed the Death Star, he for sure cruised around the galaxy got some bbq and got busy with all the ladies a la Raphael De la Ghetto. He's got 100s of kids and they will bring back the Jedi order.

Offline jellynuts

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi discussion thread - SPOILER ALERT
« Reply #11 on: January 08, 2018, 12:10:05 pm »
Anakin was... pretty cringey. But that was the point in some ways, hes 19 and grew up with a bunch of monks that happen to have laser swords and hes interacting with a chick for the first time.

He was cringey because Hayden Christensen has no talent.  Young Anakin was terrible too and man, that role destroyed Jake Lloyd's professional and personal life.  Or, on a grander scale, it was cringey because it was casted, scripted and directed by Lucas.  Lucas is a great visionary, but horrible director and scriptwriter.  I mean, Natalie Portman is a great actress, but man, she had some terrible lines in Star Wars.  And terrible dialogue with Anakin. 

However,

4. Mark Hamill is a bad actor and I am glad Luke is no longer going to be a significant character.

And so is Harrison Ford!  He's the same one-dimensional face and character in all of his movies.  That said, I have a lot of respect for Mark Hamill.  I don't think his acting was stellar in the original trilogy, but his career has been amazing and he's made a significant contribution to much of my growing up entertainments, from video games to cartoons.  I think his voice acting is great, and, I have nothing against his performance in The Last Jedi.  I'm sad that he's gone, but I'm obviously biased, and also holding onto the sentiments of the original trilogy. 


Why were his pants so high?

ROFL.  Also lol'd at your BBQ comment.  "I became a legend."  -Master Skywalker.  But yeah, why were his pants so high?  Why does he have his shirt off.  Why do they never connect when one's doing a #2?  I'm looking forward to how HISHE interprets this movie. 

In regards to killing off Leia, when it happened, I did think to myself, ah, so this is how they take her out.  And then (47 seconds)



In fact, lol, second comment there thought so too.  That was a serious what the heck moment though.  I was told they kept her because they had already finished filming when she passed away.  So it was too late to take her out. 
uckfay, Johnny with the back-handed slap. You're clearly the Oracle.

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Offline jellynuts

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uckfay, Johnny with the back-handed slap. You're clearly the Oracle.

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Offline JimmEh

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi discussion thread - SPOILER ALERT
« Reply #14 on: May 14, 2018, 06:21:15 pm »
R2 can't even stand in the shadow of BB8.

This is where you lost me. BB8 uckfaying sucks compared to R2.
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Offline jellynuts

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi discussion thread - SPOILER ALERT
« Reply #15 on: May 14, 2018, 08:29:38 pm »
This is where you lost me. BB8 uckfaying sucks compared to R2.

This is where we agree to agree.  I wrote that in the "what I disliked about it" section.

Some things that I didn't like:

R2 can't even stand in the shadow of BB8. 

Of course BB8 < R2, however, how much screen time did they give R2?  Almost none, hence...  R2 can't even stand in the shadow of BB8 [because Disney is pushing out all the old chars]
uckfay, Johnny with the back-handed slap. You're clearly the Oracle.

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi discussion thread - SPOILER ALERT
« Reply #16 on: June 01, 2018, 08:09:17 pm »
uckfay, Johnny with the back-handed slap. You're clearly the Oracle.

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Re: Star Wars is Dead
« Reply #17 on: July 05, 2018, 03:06:57 am »
It's 3am.  I'm working on pictures.  I also have youtube playing on auto, and it gets to these videos.  While a lot of these videos kind of drone on the same points, these are the first videos I saw tonight.  I find myself agreeing with virtually every argument and point they make, but maybe it's late and I'm not able to think critically beyond my own bias.  I'd love to hear other people's reactions to these videos.  I know it's almost an hour's time to invest in but I think they're worth a watch.





uckfay, Johnny with the back-handed slap. You're clearly the Oracle.

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Offline Rathburn

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Re: Star Wars is Dead
« Reply #18 on: July 05, 2018, 09:30:17 am »
Are you obsessed with hating on Star Wars?
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Offline VTAKLOL

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Re: Star Wars is Dead
« Reply #19 on: July 05, 2018, 10:30:22 am »
Are you obsessed with hating on Star Wars?

And white people.

Offline Rathburn

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Re: Star Wars is Dead
« Reply #20 on: July 05, 2018, 11:18:37 am »
And white people.

Oh yeah, guy's a regular Adolf Stalin.
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Re: Star Wars is Dead
« Reply #21 on: July 05, 2018, 02:40:23 pm »
At least watch the first vid. It's very well done.
uckfay, Johnny with the back-handed slap. You're clearly the Oracle.

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Offline Rathburn

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Re: Star Wars is Dead
« Reply #22 on: July 05, 2018, 02:56:29 pm »
At least watch the first vid. It's very well done.

I'm at work. We don't all have jobs that are so meaningless we can take whole summers off, ya know?
Is illmotion's sunday school where you learn about how Stance Jesus scraped for your sins?
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DaDuke99

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Re: Star Wars is Dead
« Reply #23 on: July 05, 2018, 06:30:02 pm »
I dunno, working all summer sounds pretty meaningless to me.

Offline Rathburn

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Re: Star Wars is Dead
« Reply #24 on: July 06, 2018, 07:20:59 am »
I dunno, working all summer sounds pretty meaningless to me.

Is illmotion's sunday school where you learn about how Stance Jesus scraped for your sins?
Roxanne - 2015 WRX Ginger - 1990 Civic Si
Avatar courtesy of Wong Photography