Topic: Secondary Air Injection System

[Munky]

.. I know I am.  I have been reading nasioc about this and so much info came at me I want to kill something.  So I thought I'd be nice and break it down for you.


All my info came from:
2006 WRX: P2444 Secondary Air Pump Stuck On - NASIOC
06 WRX Air Pump Removal - is it safe?? - NASIOC
Remnex's How-To Series: Air Pump Removal - IWSTI


CEL
First, let's see what codes we are dealing with.  This is the general list.  Depending on year and model this will via slightly.  These are all to do with the Secondary Air Injection System.

These codes are the codes that can get thrown:
    * P0410 Secondary Air Injection System
    * P0411 Incorrect Flow Detected
    * P0413 Switch Valve "A" Circuit Open
    * P0414 Switch Valve "A" Circuit Shorted
    * P0416 Switch Valve "B" Circuit Open
    * P0417 Switch Valve "B" Circuit Shorted
    * P0418 Switch Valve "A" Control Open
    * P1410 Switching Valve Stuck Open
    * P1418 System Control "A" Circuit Shorted
    * P2440 Switch Valve Stuck Open (Bank 1)
    * P2441 Switch Valve Stuck Closed (Bank 1)
    * P2442 Switch Valve Stuck Open (Bank 2)
    * P2443 Switch Valve Stuck Closed (Bank 2)
    * P2444 Pump Stuck On
   
These codes can possibly be thrown:
    * P2431 Air Flow/Pressure Sensor Circuit Range/Performance
    * P2432 Air Flow/Pressure Sensor Circuit Low
    * P2433 Air Flow/Pressure Sensor Circuit High
   

Models Affected
06+ WRX
07+ STI
07+ Legacy GT
   

Secondary Air Injection System
 What is it?
From:2006 WRX: P2444 Secondary Air Pump Stuck On - NASIOC
"The turbocharged and intercooled WRX engine nudges from 227 to 230 horsepower, and torque climbs dramatically from 217 lb-ft to 235 lb-ft. This was accomplished by increased displacement, increased compression ratio, redesigned combustion chambers, redesigned intake manifold and deleted pre-catalyst (replaced in function by a secondary air pump). The increase in compression ratio and the combustion-chamber redesign also contribute to improved emissions, with the turbo engine meeting Low Emissions Vehicle II (LEV II) regulations." Original Source no longer found.

In a nut shell what subaru decided to do was instead of a catted uppipe, they would add the Secondary Air Injection System to run for about 30 seconds from a cold start to pump air through the heads to help heat the cat in the downpipe faster, there for making it more efficient and not requiring a second cat.  STI's as we know where exempted from this anyways, no cat in the uppipe for a number of years.  In 07 they introduced the system to the STI.


Potential Problems
Now to figure out the problem.  For more info on items listed here, check your service manual. The manual will provide trouble shooting information.

Electrical: Fuses, Relay, Wiring
Hoses: Air leaks or foreign materials getting in.
Mechanical: Valve, Pump

Most common issue is water gets into the valves and causes corrosion. Also can be a combination of water and dirt in valves.  There have been some reports of small amounts of "mud" in the valves.


What are your options??
Replace fuse or relay?
This is a cheap option and you're on your way again.

Replace fault pump or valve?
This is the most expensive and most avoided option, but if your car is under warranty, go to the dealer,  everything will be covered.  Subaru also has a 80,000 km warranty on the emissions system.  So checking with the dealer cant hurt.

Let's look at pricing if warranty doesn't cover.  I will use my 06 WRX as an example.  Off to Subaru Genuine Parts.

Air pump, Air pump 
PUMP AY SECONDARY AIR
List Price : $653.41
Your Price : $558.02

Suction valve , Suction valve Left
VALVE AIR SUCTION - 2.5 liter turbo, w/o high power
List Price : $313.20
Your Price : $229.26

Suction valve , Suction valve Right
VALVE AIR SUCTION - 2.5 liter turbo, w/o high power
List Price : $313.20
Your Price : $229.26

I'll give you a moment to go clean up....



...and were back. Just to add to this the dealer will charge you a couple hours labour to change out these parts.  It seem most dealers will want to just replace a majority of the system instead of just the faulty part. Some are lucky to get this covered under warranty but as early as a few days after the system has issues again.

Remove/Disable the system
- This will is the more popular option.
- Just have to disable the code listed above. Again I want to make clear not all the above codes need to be disabled and depending on the year and model not all these code are available. The ECU doesn't have them.
- If you choose to remove the whole system, just a couple of notes:
- You will need to get block off plates if you choose to pull the system completely out. Can make you own or here are some suppliers:
KS Tech: $19.50-$28.50 (OE Gaskets extra, Price varies depending on kit.)
P&L Motorsports: $29.95 (OE Gaskets included)
Torque Solutions: $54.99
Cosworth USA: $70.00 ("Hardware Included")


Removal of System
Remnex's How-To Series: Air Pump Removal - IWSTI
The above How To is pretty much what you need to do.  Just a few notes to add:

06+ WRX & 07+ Legacy GT:
As far as I can tell for the 06 WRX, 08+ WRX/STI & 07+ Legacy GT the entire system can be pulled, both block off plates used, and all code disabled. To get the right side (passenger side) tube out it is recommended to remove the uppipe for easier access.  Or removing the turbo can work too for access.

07+ STI:
You NEED to leave the Secondary Air Combination Valve LH as this is also your atmosphere pressure sensor.  This can mess with your ECU, it will read 27.xx psi and start playing with timing for sure to try and correct. Also because the LH valve is left you only need one block off plate.  Last, not all the codes listed above are in your ECU apparently, so if can't find them all don't sweat.If anyone can confirm please let me know.


Conclusion
What more do I have to say. All the evidence is there it is your choice on what you want to do. There are no affects of removing the system or just disabling it.  I think I am just going to yonk it all and call it a day.

One finally note everyone seems to get different codes with the CEL.  I got P2441 and P2444, although P2444 seems to be the most common.

Feel free to ask questions here.

[mudferret]

Awesome write up. 

[Munky]

I have changed this post in the Notes/Updates/Changes log as I have just about hit the 8000 Char limit on the original post.  Fisrt post may end up getting extended here.

Notes/Changes/Updates:
- Just edited the Removal section.
- 06+ WRX, 08+ STI, 07+ Legacy GT can have the whole system removed.
- Just the 07 STI needs the one valve left behind.
- This should also work for the FXT as well.

August 2011
- If you don't want to go through the mess to remove the passenger side valve and tube, then you should be able to get away with unplugging the valve and finding a 1" rubber like cap to close off the open end of the valve ( Slip one of the hose claps on it for good measure) or use the hose that comes off the air pump before the y hose and block off one end, I am temporarily using a stubby screw driver.
- It has been brought to my attention that an 08 STi does that same. Changed to be 07+ STi's need to keep the LH Valve.

[schizoSTI]

I recently completely removed all the air injection system parts and it was not fun.  WAY easier with the intake manifold off because there is a few bolts on one of the suction valves where no wrench nor socket will fit on with the intake still on.

End results... engine bay looks somewhat cleaner.  No weight benefit to speak of because the pump and tubes weigh next to nothing and the valves are MAYBE 5 lbs combined. 

I took it off while I was going rotated so I thought I would fight with it while I was there.  (08 STi)

[Munky]

While doing an oil change had some time while oil was dripping to take a poke around.  Was looking at the engine bay fuse and relay box and everything was kind of dirty except one relay.  The Secondary Air Pump relay, so seem it's been a problem for the previous owner too.

That was it for me.  Orders block off plates from KS Tech.  Luckily I check eBay first, they have them listed there too so I didn't have to create an account on their website.

[Munky]

Just realized I didn't mention warranty.  If your car is under warranty, go to the dealer,  everything will be covered.  Subaru also has a 80,000 km warranty on the emissions system.  So checking with the dealer cant hurt.

[blame]

very nice amalgamation.

never had a problem with mine so i'm just gonna leave it for now, but if i ever do you can bet i'm gonna click on this thread and start yankin stuff out

thanks a bunch for sifting through what i'm sure are millions of pages of little pieces of information (like 90% of nasioc)

-sean

[nitram]

thanks for the write up, this is the problem i just got and it seems to match what i have found about it too.  (i'm surprised i didn't find this thread as i searched through iwsti and nasioc and didn't think it would be here).

I looked at my owners manual and i think majority of the emissions warranty is only up to 60k though, so i am looking into the delete option.

would i need a 'pro tuner' to get rid of the codes?  i'm only running an AP stage 1 right now.

[Munky]

very nice amalgamation.

never had a problem with mine so i'm just gonna leave it for now, but if i ever do you can bet i'm gonna click on this thread and start yankin stuff out

thanks a bunch for sifting through what i'm sure are millions of pages of little pieces of information (like 90% of nasioc)

-sean

3 nights of reading and 1 night to do the write.  My brain was almost mush from reading the nasioc thread.

thanks for the write up, this is the problem i just got and it seems to match what i have found about it too.  (i'm surprised i didn't find this thread as i searched through iwsti and nasioc and didn't think it would be here).

I looked at my owners manual and i think majority of the emissions warranty is only up to 60k though, so i am looking into the delete option.

would i need a 'pro tuner' to get rid of the codes?  i'm only running an AP stage 1 right now.

I searched here first but only came up with one thread and there wasn't a solution.  I PM'd the OP and he just disabled the code and hadn't done anything beyond that so i fault this would be nice for everyone.

60k? really.  I know the cats for sure have a 80K warranty, got that directly from subaru.  Some people from the nasioc thread said their local dealer said this system is covered under that too.  I'd assume this because like I said above, this system was put in so a catted uppipe wouldn't be needed.

If you have an AP you can disable the codes.

[nitram]

yeah considering my error is saying it's "fail open".. probably better to block it off properly instead of allowing hot exhaust gas come back up towards the rubber hoses/pump (plastic covers), then remove the code with the AP.

i believe the 80k would be in miles which relates to the 130k km we have for major emissions parts warranty.

http://www.subaru.ca/WebPage.aspx?WebPageID=5257&WebSiteID=282

However a quick review of the owners warranty document doesn't specify this as part of the "major components" so i'd rather not bring it in for a $100 OBDII scan only to be denied warranty..

[Munky]

Going to add something in here.  I have gotten a few PM's about the removal.

If you don't want to go through the mess to remove the passenger side valve and tube, then you should be able to get away with unplugging the valve and finding a 1" rubber like cap to close off the open end of the valve or use the hose that comes off the air pump before the y hose and block off one end, I am temporarily using a stubby screw driver.  Slip one of the hose claps on it for good measure.

I think i may just wait until I got a DP (if that ever happens).

PS. Feel free to ask questions here (Not PM me) because other people may have the same.

[mudferret]

Munky, so I'm assuming if you elect to leave the passenger side valve/tube in place the vavle should be failed closed if it has indeed failed?  Or does blocking it off negate the effect of a failed open valve? 

[Munky]

Munky, so I'm assuming if you elect to leave the passenger side valve/tube in place the vavle should be failed closed if it has indeed failed?  Or does blocking it off negate the effect of a failed open valve? 

I believe the valves are naturally closed. So unless the valve failed while open (Which is possible judging from the codes) then a blockage would be required if valve is not removed.  I just suggest blocking the opening just to ensure blockage of air from entering the head.

[nitram]

What i ended up doing was using exhaust repair tape, a piece of leather and a screw clamp to close it off.  It's been holding up okay so far.

Also, the 07 STI are not the only one that requires the driver side valve as an atmosphere pressure sensor, the 08 does too (or else it reads 21+ psig) and i would assume the same for the 09+.

[Munky]

Thank you for the info.  I have updated the OP.

Notes/Changes/Updates can be found in my first reply, after mudferrets reply. (http://www.westernsubaruclub.com/smf/index.php?topic=21463.msg283084#msg283084)

[Prelude]

ok so far i have managed to remove the second/driver side valve by cutting the hardline. so as of right now the intake manifold did not have to be taken off. i think i can get to the hole on the block if can remove the RH exhaust Manifold cover. this mean that i won't need to remove any piping and no gasket will be needed to be replace.

that being said, the turbo shield and airbox is out right now.

[Munky]

Have you blocked the end of the cut off hard line?  If not, extra air is making its way into the head.

[Prelude]

well actually the itshay hit the fan and i had to remove a lot of stuff on the exhaust side, the bolts are out and the hardline is still stuck in there. i have to pull off some hoses to get the hard line out. then put the plate in. after that i will finally be done with it and i can put the exhaust system back in.

i need to order new gaskets, i think it was you that mentioned that if you go with the grimmspeed 2X thick gaskets they are reusable later right?

[Munky]

Yes. That is what I have been told.

[coop3422]

Hey everyone, bringing this from the dead.

I have a MY07 that just rolled 98k. I took it in today for the 96k service (wanted to weeks ago but Subaru Calgary was booked up apparently). Well this past sunday I got the CEL and flashing cruise light, so had them run the code. P2444 is what they told me it was. Did some reading and it brought me here. I haven't picked my car up yet (the shuttle guy is on his way here), I didn't have that fixed yet as they said it was safe to drive the way it is. So I just had a few questions...

Will driving it like this (with the CEL and blinking cruise) do any damage to my car? It will only be for a few weeks, as I see some people concerned about hoses melting.
From my understanding, the ONLY thing these parts are for is for better emissions on start up correct? My car will start just fine in any weather with or without this system working?
If I choose to buy block off plates and rip the system out, it won't cause any harm to my car? Can any tuner delete the code so the CEL goes away and I can use cruise again? And if so, what does that typically cost and do I need to buy any software, cobb AP, or anything like that?
Anybody know a shop in Calgary that would take the system out and install the block plates? At the end of the day I don't care about the extra little emissions, it's not worth spending $1200 to fix if I don't need it and my car will run fine without it.

Thanks for the clarification

[funk32]

I am sure someone in Calgary would be willing to help you if you are not confident in your own skills. To turn the codes off all you need is a tactrix cable, laptop, and free software which i'm sure someone in Calgary  has (Edmonton has a few) or maybe ask Airboy nicely and he may do it for free as it only takes 5 mins

i have seen no issues with people deleting it.

[Munky]

Will driving it like this (with the CEL and blinking cruise) do any damage to my car?
No.  Car might be in a semi limp mode so fuel mileage may suffer a little.


From my understanding, the ONLY thing these parts are for is for better emissions on start up correct? My car will start just fine in any weather with or without this system working?
Yes, just emission garbage for start up to warm the DP cat faster. The car won't notice a difference.


If I choose to buy block off plates and rip the system out, it won't cause any harm to my car?
Nope.  The car will live just fine.  I have been running with the system disabled for almost a year without any problems.  Lots of people remove it just because.

Can any tuner delete the code so the CEL goes away and I can use cruise again? And if so, what does that typically cost and do I need to buy any software, cobb AP, or anything like that?
Anyone with a Tactrix Cable and RomRaider can disable the codes for you.  If you want, you could get your self a Cobb AP but they are pricey and the maps are ok at best.  You could just get your self a Tactix unit and download RomRaider for free and do it all yourself.  Your third and finally option is have a visit with Airboy Tuning,  see vendor section of the forum.


Anybody know a shop in Calgary that would take the system out and install the block plates? At the end of the day I don't care about the extra little emissions, it's not worth spending $1200 to fix if I don't need it and my car will run fine without it.
VEX would be the best shop to go to but friendly people can help you out and save you a few bucks.  One of them could have the ability to disable the codes for you.  VEX might be able to as well, not sure though.  Again Airboy can disable the codes for you in the end and set you up with a killer awesome tune. (Airboy is not a killer, He is just a Tuning God).

[Prelude]

i have been running my car without this stuff for about a 8 months. funk32 was kind enough to help me disable the codes and i have had no code comeback on at all. it has had no problem starting at all even on the coldest day this year. The hardest thing to take out is the hardlines. they are steel and cutting it out was the easiest solution but annoying to say the least. we had to take apart a lot of the exhaust system to get everything off and put the blocking plates on. i am glad it is out of there. if you plan on doing any mods like the stage 2 mod which involves replacing the downpipe i would do the blocking plates at the same time and get a tune for everything.

if you have any questions let me know.

[coop3422]

Awesome, thanks for the quick and detailed reply, I appreciate it. I think I remember reading in one of the forums, but is it normal with this issue to smell a little exhaust from time to time? Can't remember which thread it was but I think I saw somebody say they noticed that as well.

I looked under the hood after work tonight, it almost seems like my intercooler is sloped forward, and not fully sealing around the hood. If so I'll have to take it back to the dealership and have it adjusted before rain or snow gets in there

[coop3422]

Called Vex earlier today. They have a set of block off plates installed, and he said it would be about 4 hours shop time at $98/hr, plus $100 for the plates. He also said he'd delete the codes included for me, so about $500 said and done.

What do you guys think, is that fair? It's better than $1200 from the dealership, and having those parts eventually go on me again.

That said I wish I had a downpipe already since I was planning on doing that in the spring, now I'll have to pay labour all over again. Anyone know somebody with a catless DP for sale lol