Author Topic: LAME LENNIE - darthekai's (boring) quad cab tacoma  (Read 8868 times)

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Offline jellynuts

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Re: the dumbest thing possible - darthekai's 4runner
« Reply #25 on: November 19, 2019, 08:25:01 pm »
I believe SSS is an expert in all vehicles. 
uckfay, Johnny with the back-handed slap. You're clearly the Oracle.

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Offline Canuckrz

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Re: the dumbest thing possible - darthekai's 4runner
« Reply #26 on: November 19, 2019, 11:05:43 pm »
I recently did a top end rebuild on a 5vz. Your list is pretty good, I'd suggest using the aisin kit for the timingbelt/waterpump as they're the oem, it will also come with koyo/nsk/ntn idlers etc. The only thing I'd add to it is make sure you reseal the half moons when you take the valve covers off, and use a good quality fipg like permatex the right stuff for the half moons as well as the oil pan.

As for that weird shaped piece with the foam around it, its just a cover plate to stop water and debris from getting into the valley under the intake manifold. Theres no oil or anything that goes through that area or anything like on a pushrod engine, so its not really critical that its perfectly sealed, its just there to prevent mouse nests and other annoyances as its just an open void other than a couple small (coolant I think) pipes. The foam usually is shrekt because of the exhaust crossover pipe that runs behind the block is very close to it.

Don't worry about replacing the oil pump, though it might be a decent idea to take it off and reseal it if you're tearing the front and oil pan off the engine anyways. Its just FIPG on the back side, and maybe an O ring iirc, and you'll need a new paper gasket for the oil pickup.

I'd resist the urge to do the head gaskets unless there are signs they are bad which is unlikely. The 5vz uses a MLS gasket and torque to yield head bolts, so if you take them off you're likely going to have resurface the heads and replace the bolts. I found this out the hard way when I did my rebuild, turns out someone replaced the head gaskets at some point using composite gaskets as a cheap fix. So when the new gaskets arrived and they were MLS I ended up spending the better part of two days flattening and resurfacing the heads using a pane of glass, sprayglue, and sandpaper.

Offline darthekai

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Re: the dumbest thing possible - darthekai's 4runner
« Reply #27 on: November 20, 2019, 09:07:17 am »
Awesome, thanks!

I didn't realize there was the back plug, then the second set of half moon seals on the cams. Hot tip.

Gonna call up the ol bois at the Toyota dealership here and compare pricing and brand names from their catalog VS rockauto. Should be a tedious conversation. Maybe they have some recall valve cover gakset replacement kits sitting around still.
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Offline tperkins

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Re: the dumbest thing possible - darthekai's 4runner
« Reply #28 on: November 20, 2019, 09:28:17 am »

I'd resist the urge to do the head gaskets unless there are signs they are bad which is unlikely. The 5vz uses a MLS gasket and torque to yield head bolts, so if you take them off you're likely going to have resurface the heads and replace the bolts. I found this out the hard way when I did my rebuild, turns out someone replaced the head gaskets at some point using composite gaskets as a cheap fix. So when the new gaskets arrived and they were MLS I ended up spending the better part of two days flattening and resurfacing the heads using a pane of glass, sprayglue, and sandpaper.

Come to think of it I don't recall hearing about any 5vzfe head gaskets failing for anyone I know. Many engines well beyond 400,000.
The 3 is raw.  Lighter than more agile.  The 6 probably feels like a 747.  And by that contrast, my STI probably feels like the Hindenburg.  So GR's are like the International Space Station.

Offline Canuckrz

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Re: the dumbest thing possible - darthekai's 4runner
« Reply #29 on: November 20, 2019, 10:52:25 am »
Come to think of it I don't recall hearing about any 5vzfe head gaskets failing for anyone I know. Many engines well beyond 400,000.
The engine I did the top end rebuild on had somewhere in the range of 420k-460k on it, its an american truck so I can't recall its mileage off the top of my head. Everything was still pretty minty that I could inspect, though its not like I took the rotating assembly apart.

Offline tperkins

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Re: the dumbest thing possible - darthekai's 4runner
« Reply #30 on: November 20, 2019, 11:05:54 am »
The engine I did the top end rebuild on had somewhere in the range of 420k-460k on it, its an american truck so I can't recall its mileage off the top of my head. Everything was still pretty minty that I could inspect, though its not like I took the rotating assembly apart.

If you search for it, it is pretty uncommon for headgasket issues on that engine.
The 3 is raw.  Lighter than more agile.  The 6 probably feels like a 747.  And by that contrast, my STI probably feels like the Hindenburg.  So GR's are like the International Space Station.

Offline darthekai

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Re: the dumbest thing possible - darthekai's 4runner
« Reply #31 on: November 20, 2019, 11:17:03 am »
What I was surprised by was the # of people with HG issues on the 22re.

I guess toyota had problems on it, then on the 3vz, then on the 5vz they were like uckfay this, its time to go full retard.
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Offline tperkins

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Re: the dumbest thing possible - darthekai's 4runner
« Reply #32 on: November 20, 2019, 11:25:26 am »
What I was surprised by was the # of people with HG issues on the 22re.

I guess toyota had problems on it, then on the 3vz, then on the 5vz, and the diesels of that era they were like uckfay this, its time to go full retard.
The 3 is raw.  Lighter than more agile.  The 6 probably feels like a 747.  And by that contrast, my STI probably feels like the Hindenburg.  So GR's are like the International Space Station.

Offline Canuckrz

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Re: the dumbest thing possible - darthekai's 4runner
« Reply #33 on: November 20, 2019, 12:00:51 pm »
I'd agree, if I had to guess the engine I was working on was overheated at some point and warped the heads slightly which caused the leak. They then used composite gaskets to close the gap to not have to pay to deck the heads. You can get a head surprisingly flat on a sheet of tempered glass. I didn't have a machinists straight edge but flipping my ruler back and fourth to compensate for it being potentially bowed after home decking it with 80 dry then 220 grit wet it was out of flat by less than .002 in across the surface using my feeler gauges. Granted it was a lot more time intensive than I would have guessed.

...then on the 5vz they were like uckfay this, its time to go full retard.
That would be my guess as well, I was quite surprised to see it use an MLS gasket.

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Re: the dumbest thing possible - darthekai's 4runner
« Reply #34 on: November 21, 2019, 08:57:09 am »
I believe SSS is an expert in all vehicles.

Toyotas are confusing and scary.

Offline darthekai

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Re: the dumbest thing possible - darthekai's 4runner
« Reply #35 on: November 23, 2019, 06:08:30 pm »
Sweet christ. Some highlights of the phone call:
Timing belt: 74.95
Tensioner assy: 124.64
Water pump: 313.33
Idler 1: 217.85
Idler 2: 290.81!!!!!
Rear main seal: 71.61

Clutch, they dont sell a kit... but...
Pressure plate: 361.93
Disc: 557.68!!!
Throw-out bearing: 194.59 hahahaha
Pilot bearing: 12.64


Also "what brand is that water pump", "oh all the parts we sell are made by toyota"....ok bud.
Many lols were had on the phone. Rockauto, ur my guy!!!!
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Re: the dumbest thing possible - darthekai's 4runner
« Reply #36 on: November 23, 2019, 07:17:09 pm »
I'm surprised that you were surprised. The dealership is always rough even with Toyota, Toyota Canada gets it especially bad. For example even at cost +15% that I use to get at the dealership it was still cheaper to buy the parts and have them shipped from the states.

Offline darthekai

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Re: the dumbest thing possible - darthekai's 4runner
« Reply #37 on: November 23, 2019, 08:59:45 pm »
I was prepared for crazy prices, but the actual hubris encountered is still staggering.
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Offline darthekai

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Re: the dumbest thing possible - darthekai's 4runner
« Reply #38 on: November 24, 2019, 02:51:48 pm »
Mmmmm, spending $830 on parts.....  :-[

Still to get at stealership:
Pilot bearing
Toyota FIPG
Plugs
Wires
Tstat
Tstat housing paper gasket

To get at napa:
Acc belts
Starter maybe, once I see how it all jigs together.
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Re: the dumbest thing possible - darthekai's 4runner
« Reply #39 on: November 24, 2019, 08:40:39 pm »
...the thermostat housing doesn't use a paper gasket? It seals with the rubber ring that snaps around the t-stat, theres a good chance it comes in your timing belt and water pump kit. You can buy the oem plugs (ngk or denso dual electrode), plug wires (DENSO 6716182), and thermostat (AISIN THT019) at rock auto as well, and most clutch kits come with a pilot bearing.

Offline darthekai

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Re: the dumbest thing possible - darthekai's 4runner
« Reply #40 on: November 24, 2019, 09:56:54 pm »
 8)Thanks man, I wasnt sure if it did, but RA lists it as a part... PN 1634162040
Looks like its up top, which I may or may not have to remove, but I dont think so...



The rest of the stuff I just didnt get because it added a new shipping source. Its the perfect combo of cheapness at the dealer and add-on expensiveness from RA.
Wires I might regret, I just dont like cheaping out on wires or coils because of a past experience with my tacoma. That and the RA listing says a weird thing "boots not included"... No idea what that means
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Re: the dumbest thing possible - darthekai's 4runner
« Reply #41 on: November 24, 2019, 10:57:26 pm »
I'm kind of concerned now. What year of 4runner did you pick when you ordered the parts for the 5vz? The thermostat housing on the 5vz is on the water pump and goes down towards the lower rad inlet.

EDIT: I see it now, its number 12 in the picture, not 14 that's just for the upper water neck. I thought you had picked the parts for the 3vz instead.

Also you're not cheaping out on parts necessarily by ordering them from rock auto, so long as you know the the oem part manufacturer. I think I see what they mean by the boot set. Its a waste spark setup so each coil feeds a matching plug on the other side of the engine, so the kits come with the 3 boots for the wires, however they don't come with the boots for the coils which is what they are referring to. I've never really replaced the boots on a coil personally.

Offline tperkins

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Re: the dumbest thing possible - darthekai's 4runner
« Reply #42 on: November 25, 2019, 09:03:06 am »
Did you look any of this up on OEM parts websites?

AC Delco water pump from rock auto
NTN hydraulic tensioner etc


Lets see some part numbers I will see what I can find.
The 3 is raw.  Lighter than more agile.  The 6 probably feels like a 747.  And by that contrast, my STI probably feels like the Hindenburg.  So GR's are like the International Space Station.

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Re: the dumbest thing possible - darthekai's 4runner
« Reply #43 on: November 25, 2019, 09:49:46 am »
AC Delco isn't the OEM supplier for any toyota parts afaik.

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Re: the dumbest thing possible - darthekai's 4runner
« Reply #44 on: November 25, 2019, 10:02:09 am »
AC Delco isn't the OEM supplier for any toyota parts afaik.

Ooops you're right, I meant to say Aisin
The 3 is raw.  Lighter than more agile.  The 6 probably feels like a 747.  And by that contrast, my STI probably feels like the Hindenburg.  So GR's are like the International Space Station.

Offline darthekai

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Re: the dumbest thing possible - darthekai's 4runner
« Reply #45 on: November 25, 2019, 10:04:02 am »
haha well heres my order, critique away!



Plus dealer plugs, wires, pilot bearing (probably, depending on what brand is in the Exedy kit), T-stat, FIPG, plus Napa accessory belts.
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Offline tperkins

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Re: the dumbest thing possible - darthekai's 4runner
« Reply #46 on: November 25, 2019, 10:18:15 am »
Oh I didn't realize you had already sent it haha. I think you did well personally.



Plus dealer plugs, wires, pilot bearing (probably, depending on what brand is in the Exedy kit), T-stat, FIPG, plus Napa accessory belts.

Good call on dealer plugs, Toyota wants these dual electrode denso plugs and really they aren't that expensive. As far as pilot bearing, I will tell you a story haha. For my evo 6 I ordered an exedy kit and a Mitsubishi dealership release bearing. When they both arrived, they were identical. Same manufacturer (iirc NTN, same markings).

Being that exedy was such a huge OEM supplier for clutches to Japanese manufacturers, I would think it would be safe to use everything in the kit and it would probably even be the same thing you ordered from a dealer.
The 3 is raw.  Lighter than more agile.  The 6 probably feels like a 747.  And by that contrast, my STI probably feels like the Hindenburg.  So GR's are like the International Space Station.

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Re: the dumbest thing possible - darthekai's 4runner
« Reply #47 on: November 25, 2019, 10:26:39 am »
I would have went with the aisin clutch over exedy but its still a solid choice. I would have went with skf seals over fel-pro other than the valve cover gaskets but they're still a decent choice, sometimes their stuff is just repackaged skf anyways. Good move remembering the valve cover grommets, I always forget about those little buggers. The timing belt kit was the key component to get the right brand, and you did.

Also there's no point buying the half moons (0396555), they're just aluminum blocks that get RTV'd there's nothing to wear out. I'd return those and get your 40 bucks back (less shipping).

To finish out your clutch kit it looks like you will need the release bearing for the 1990 4runner to match up with its transmission as mentioned here. https://www.yotashop.com/toyota-5vz-swap-clutch-3-0l-to-3-4l-conversion-clutch-kit/

Good call on dealer plugs, Toyota wants these dual electrode denso plugs and really they aren't that expensive. As far as pilot bearing, I will tell you a story haha. For my evo 6 I ordered an exedy kit and a Mitsubishi dealership release bearing. When they both arrived, they were identical. Same manufacturer (iirc NTN, same markings).

Being that exedy was such a huge OEM supplier for clutches to Japanese manufacturers, I would think it would be safe to use everything in the kit and it would probably even be the same thing you ordered from a dealer.
Said plugs are available straight from rock auto as long as you know the code off the denso plugs, NGK's are also more than fine so long as you get the dual electrode ones as you mentioned. The 5vz was also kind of odd in that one bank from the factory had ngk plugs and the other bank had denso iirc.

It really depends on who the oem supplier is for said vehicle, iirc exedy is the oem supplier for subaru and apparently Mitsubishi. Aisin however I'm fairly confident is the oem for the 4runner and most toyota clutches. I expect the exedy kit will still come with decent brand bearings.

Offline darthekai

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Re: the dumbest thing possible - darthekai's 4runner
« Reply #48 on: November 25, 2019, 10:49:24 am »
Oh itshay! Yeah good catch, I didn't think there would be any differences as they are both r150f transmissions.... But apparently the bell housing and input shaft length are slightly different, resulting in a thicker tob on the 3.4..... Meaning my clutch would bolt up but then be engaged all the time, making me pull the engine a second time.........

I had an exedy clutch in my tacoma and it felt great. With $130 price difference, the choice is obvious to me. I think the aisin xtra cost comes from rubber isolators, which I dont like the sound of anyways... never was a fan of reducing NVH.

So bought locally an SKF N4073, 6x NGK 3967, a gates thermostat, Plug wires Denso 6716182, and 3 Gates belts. All for about as much as RA.  The SKF bearing was actually slightly cheaper surprisingly. Now were at $1k.
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Re: the dumbest thing possible - darthekai's 4runner
« Reply #49 on: November 25, 2019, 03:04:09 pm »
Is it the Gates 33982? That's probably the only gates thermostat I would recommend using.